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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2012, 05:58 AM
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You have some time to work her and let her mature before you decide what to do. She is too young to even know if she will be suitable for breeding. I would hope with a few years of training and, at the very least, a schtuzhund 1 and a koer rating. Right now she is only a puppy-what training would she be sent of for at this age of her life?

The states have been flooded with Czech dogs, so that is nothing rare and there are a number of breeders with solid experience with the Czech lines. She looks to be 1/4 West German working line already. .

Stay on the forum. Cliffson is a member here who has a lot of knowledge on the Czech lines. Many of us have full 100% Czech dogs or Czech x West German Working blends...I am not sure how difficult to train? A little longer to mature, perhaps? I don't have the expertise to say......


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2012, 07:45 AM
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the bloodlines of both dogs are relatively common in the US....therefore there are many "cousins" around....I have seen quite a few progeny from the second generation here and there....

As far as training - it takes alot of time and effort to train a dog far enough to truly evaluate it for breedworthiness....years - the minimum age to try for the IPO1 is 18 months old - and very very few people accomplish a title at that age without consistent daily training in at least 2 of the 3 phases! Most dogs get titled between 2.5 and 4 - some people take even longer, especially if they are novices....

Hips and elbows should be evaluated at 2 by OFA for any breeding animal, regardless of titles....I have seen very experienced people and even experienced vets evaluate x-rays and then have seen OFA fail those x-rays....even know of one dog whose x-rays were sent to a major vet school for evaluation by board certified Vet Radiologists (2 of whom WERE OFA evaluators) after failing OFA and were judged as 'Fair" with poor positioning, but owner did not redo and officially, the dog failed....for breeding, I believe you must do the OFA (or German 'a' stamp) to have any credibility at all - and for the sake of the pups!!!!

Your little girl is very pretty and nicely bred - put the time and effort into training her and your male and in several years, you will have much more perspective and experience under your belt to evaluate their breeding potential.


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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2012, 10:20 AM
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A big reservation with this breeding would also be the other pups in the litter. The way the people around you treat their dogs, what would happen to the other 6-9 puppies that your bitch would produce? What kind of life will they have? Are they going to be dumped on the side of the road once they are too much to handle also?

What the others are saying is true, the people that search out Czech dogs and know what they are talking about, go to breeders that cover all their bases (including titling and health certifications. The people that you're going to sell those other dogs to, are looking for a German Shepherd, most likely a dark sable because its the popular color right now, and then they'll end up with who knows what. You yourself have no idea what would come out of this breeding, your girl is too hard for you to train and you sent her off to someone else, and although the male is easy to train, genetics don't work the way we want to. Some of the pups might have your girls personality, others will have the males, and some of the others might be a blend, but how would you know? Are you knowledgeable enough to figure out which ones have what personality at 8 weeks of age?

I think you asked a very good question, with really good intention, but you really have to think about everything involved in breeding your bitch. And if you're looking for a stud (that's not your boy) you won't get a very good one because the best stud owners only breed to the best bitches they can find, as progeny is very important to a stud's future breeding opportunities and if that stud produces bad pups (even through the fault of the female involved) no one is going to care and they'll think twice about using him again.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by argo daisynina dvora View Post
No, I don't. We love Akeemi so much and would love to have her forever. We decided to pay for a pro to do her training and not take a chance and mess her up. We were told to breed her down, Czech lines are harder to work with if your not experienced. We got Ando not necessary to breed but due to the fact he is so easy to train and a great dog. Todd, my husband thinks Akeemi needs to be with a Czech, I want to not only have a pup good in sport and police work but a great, smart family pet. I think Ando would blend her down, but we are looking at this in 5 or so years down the road.
I am sorry, but there will always be only one Akeemi. Any puppy she produces will not be her. Puppies have their own personalities. There is no way to breed and produce another Akeemi. There will only be similarities, and sometimes there may not even be any.

Take everyone's advice. Just ask your breeder for a pup similar to her, or even ask for a pup from one of her parents.

Regardless, there will only be one Akeemi.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 09:17 AM
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You are receiving good advice:-) you are not going to get a clone of your dog by breeding her:-) I just bred my ZVV1 Gabbi Morika Bohemia to Erri. I would love to have another Gabbi but short of finding a littermate not going to happen.I bred her in hopes of producing a litter with the drive and temperament for police work and SAR. Pups are are blend. And even with both parents having the drive and temperament that I desire other is no guarantee that the pups will. Just have to wait and see. My point is that breeding your dog in hopes of totally reproducing her is unrealistic .as far as Czech lines being hard to work with I do not agree. They have what I need for work. The dogs must be stable however and there are unstable dogs in all lines. One must judge the individual:-)
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 09:29 PM
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To the OP
I wish you all the luck in your training and titles with your dogs.
I have been breeding and studing pedigrees for many years and am far from knowing enough.
Here are a few things to think about
Thing to ask your self is If i breed my dog can I and will I be responsible for every puppy she has for the rest of the puppies life.
what if the buyers need puppies replaced ? what will you do if you only bred one time.
You will not get a replica of her by breeding her so in the long run if you love her then return to the breeder you got her from to get another.
as for health she should be at least 2 years old and clear hips and elbows certified ( not just a vet says they are ok).
Also though the test is not the end all be all Ory IT pups have seem to all come in as a DM carrier or at risk for DM you should test your female if you really decide to breed her and then make sure that she is bred to a clear male if you decide to breed her.
Finally I will say this breeding an older female who has not had puppies is very hard on them and the older they get the more the chance of them having a problem.
As a breeder we have given discounts to repeat customers so that they can just enjoy there family members and not have to worry about breeding just to get there next pup. If the line was really super the breeder will keep that line around and I am sure you would be able to go back and get a dog of relation that you will also love and be very happy with.
If you would like to chat over the phone we welcome phone calls and we are happy to help you in any way that we can. I am always happy to chat pedigrees and pass any info I have.

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