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Old 01-01-2014, 11:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Stormfronts Brawnson police dog

Hey...
I was wondering, what's the story about the Stormfronts Brawnson dog anyways? That dog is related to my dogs mom, I looked at the Pedigree database. I was talking to someone about Police dogs and awesome dogs and stuff and they were like 'Stormfronts Brawnson is a legend!' so thats when I looked, remembering seeing it and he's on there alright.
On Deviantart, someone said 'Wow.. a lot of famous dogs in Dakota's bloodlines' or something like that, but I had no clue.
Apparently, he has a lot of titles and was with the Swat k9? Can someone tell me about the dog if they know about him OR send me links based on him if there is any? thanks!

P.S I wasn't sure which place to put this topic in


My dogs bloodlines- Line-breeding for the progency of Northern k9 Blue and daisy vom kloakenwasser

Stormfronts Brawnson- '00&'02 WPO CHAMPION Stormfront's Brawnson
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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a Canadian bred dog with Czech , DDR and WGWL pedigree.
Outstanding working dog . Outstanding competition dog.
Ideal temperament.

This contribution from friend Mike Russell who was involved in a co-operative breeding of Carmspack Kohl , her last litter.
Kohl , a solid black female was allowed all and any testing that Mike R, and Diehl , and even Rinus Bastiaansen could dish out . She , Kohl, had produced working police dogs for me - but since she herself had no titles thorough testing was part of the evaluation before being allowed to breed to Brawnson. Impressed everyone - proclaims - harder than many males -- and so she was bred.
The majority of the pups were registered to and stayed in the US under the von Damonhunden name , two came to Canada as my share and they were registered under my kennel name. SG Stormfront's Brawnson - 2000 & 2002 WPO Champion SchH3 DPO2 FH2 KKL2 lbz Narc/Patrol/SWAT K9

Mine were a sable female Kris and a solid black male Tyko.
Carmspack Tyko Bravo von den Dämonhunden

the litter stats for hips ranged from excellent , good , one fair , one borderline (?) (did not follow up) --- my two , female good , male , crying shame fail on one hip , one elbow .

I can only comment on the two that I am thoroughly familiar with.
The male , Tyko -- everything you would want . Calm, openly friendly, very masculine striking look and good conformation-- drives good and strong in fight drive -- surprises the decoys because he is such a "normal" dog . The female Kris , orthopedics good hips and elbows , but was not an improvement nor a match to her mother Kohl or to what Kohl had previously produced with my own males.
Kris kept on back burner . Never bred . Much shorter life span -- developed spinal problem . Her brother Tyko with his hip and elbow races around with vigour . You would never know he had any problem , so much so that x rays were done at two and I believe again around 6? just in case -- . So for me -- Brawnson was dead end line.
Tried again buying a Brawnson grand progeny --- did not work out , testicle problem .

For firy drive Kohl's son Kato seen on Linda Shaws site was what I expected Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs

this is a Brawnson combination that I would have been very interested in Xago vom Schafer see because of the DAM's side of the pedigree -- Orex Schwarzen Brink ! outstanding tracking
Linebreeding - 5 generations

those bloodlines in Orex are what I have in my kennel. Had things worked out that is where or how my Brawnson progeny would have been used in breeding program



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Old 01-02-2014, 01:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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no matter what a dog is on paper you have to deal with the dog in front of you . previously you said of your dog "
Dakota is an awesome guard dog. When she sees a dog in our yard, or someone she doesn't recongize, or something that looks creepy she barks and snarls at the window. Hackles are spiked up down her back, tail up. She runs to the door and barks at it, until I hold her back and tell her its alright.

one thing. She gets terrified of blow up pool toys, and in our back yard, if she sees a dog she barks at it from a distance(on the other side of the fence). Her tail is up with other dogs, but if its a blow up toy, her tail is inbetween her legs and shes fear aggressive"
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have a granddaughter of Brawnson through a son Stuka. She is about 8 months now.

Pro's:
Plenty of Prey / posession loves to bite anything. I could reward her with stick, hose, ball, tug whatever.
Love her structure, nice bone and size on her
Fairly social (especially off property)
Quick recovery if something startles her (doesnt shut down or go into complete avoidance usually will go and check out the unknown whatever)
Very handler/helper hard, NOT a soft dog so far
Very aware of her environment
Seems fairly confident on most surfaces I have tried her on. (wasnt a fan of tables or benches but with minimal coaxing was up and doing some tug on a couple or taking food)
Great grip/entry on the bite
Uses her nose a lot
Barks like a male

Cons:
-Is dog reactive (fear) though once she meets the dog she will play with no further issues. Doesnt like horses either (amish ones trotting by).
-Has some issues settling in the house, but that could be her age. (This has been improving with certain management techniques)
-Had a bad fear stage as a young pup 8weeks-12weeks, though she did a 180 with some age and exposure to various stimuli
-Is sharp on our property (not off) (hackles barks but will meet people and becomes friendly) especially at night and also towards people acting out of the norm at night. Have yet to figure if this is a nerve issue, maturity related or her age. (She may be in another fear stage)


Her age makes it hard to be definitive on what she is and isnt especially nerve wise. She seems to be a bit of a late bloomer in some ways so only time will tell.

I will be doing pre lims in a couple months so hopefully all is well there. Currently racing around on icey hills and jumping all over me and everything else with no signs of discomfort.


Here is a vid of her learning to bark for the tug and doing some grip work in a crowded room full of people, she was like this the first time she came in to work no hesitation doing prey work with a stranger.


Her pedigree

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...en-sportwaffen
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Pedigree is only part of the puzzle, if pedigrees predicted exactly what a dog will be then there would be no "surprises" in temperament/conformation in litters, and every breeder would be world champion producers and police departments wouldn't have such terrible times finding suitable GSDs.

Pedigrees provide a wonderful road map/blue print of what you can hope for....if what carmspack quoted you as saying is true, I wouldn't put a whole bunch of weight on one "awesome" dog in the pedigree. Just because there is a "legend" (very subjective and over-used term in my book lol) in the pedigree doesn't mean much, especially when the dog in front of you is what it is and there are waaaay more pieces to the pedigree, and how all those pieces mesh is also a variable. Also as Carm said, seems like there can be some awesome dogs, but if they aren't passing those genese down strongly, and producing/reproducing strong dogs...doesn't mean much if they are in the pedigree. I have NO idea about these lines, just speaking in general here.

Just love your guy for who he is, are you planning on breeding or something? Otherwise, don't put so much weight on his pedigree, it seems to me it can make people have these crazy expectations for their pups and then be disappointed when their dog isn't some killer police dog machine.

On another note, I would work on stopping the things you view as "excellent guard dog material." Going insane just because a non-threat is walking down the road isn't good for him....why teach him he needs to be on guard over complete non-threats, being physiologically and psychologically stressed for absolutely no reason...especially if he's fearful of complete non threats, like those stupid blow up Christmas thingys ( I hate those lol), and complete non-threat inanimate pool toys.

It could be that his genetics are completely sound, but you've created these semi-nervy behaviors (or what some would view as nervy behaviors) by giving him the impression you like it. Saying "It's okay, everythings okay" while possibly stroking/petting him, in his mind translates to "oh, mom likes it when I do this." And now he does it all the time....including with the inanimate objects, just a thought.

What I did with my previous dog that acted like this sometimes is put him in a "down/stay" anytime he started acting like that, giving him a "safe place" and not doing the whole "it's okay, everything's okay" talk when he starts barking. It seems that this can sometimes amplify and increase the reaction, leading to bleed over in other areas...."oh, you like when I bark at people walking by the house? Then I should bark at everyone I see walking out and about too!" Kind of thing. Or you may like the fact that he barks at things, in which case...never mind. :-D

Personally I think the silent, observant, dog, is much more threatening than the neurotic one that is going berzerk for no reason (talking dogs in general here, not yours specifically). Something about that intense GSD stare that just gets me. ;-) Sorry to go off topic, just commenting on what Carmspack brought up, which is your dogs personality and comparing it to the bloodlines/pedigree.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
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My pups breeder who owns Stuka and knew and used Brawnson said he was exceptional. (Bad @ss ---- his words)
Also said that not all the females he was bred to where strong physically or in temperment.
Theres a lot of rumors that he throws bad nerves/hips but then there's Stuka out of an Asko daughter and some others. Perhaps he is one of those studs that only gels well with a select few females?

Saw an interesting litter for sale on PDB. Terror vd Staatmacht x Brawnson grand daughter.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Blitz and Carm, I've heard that a lot of Czech lines seem to have more reactivity and sharpness than other working lines (just thinking on some of the things on your lists Blitz). Is this your experience? Is it a fair generalization for most Czech lines, or only some lines/combinations and not others? I know that's a loaded question, my guy is West German and I'm just starting to be able to recognize a lot of the West German names. NO idea about Czech. :-)
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I cant answer you honestly as I feel it will take another year to have a good idea what she is if she passes her pre lims. In some ways she is very social, I trust her with my kids and at playgrounds, meeting strangers, guests in our home, with my lap dogs, in public etc.

Then she hackles at some guy messing around in his car at night in the parking lot or barks at my neighbor and her little white dog as they are coming out of their house.

Is this nerves or her natural development based on her genetics? I would definitely say she has a lower threshold then a lot of dogs I have seen. At my IPO club the more experienced members often say that Czeck dogs are sharper and can be nervy..

I had a czeck/SL female before her that was a complete nervebag. Aside from the dog reactivity no similarities. She could not be trusted with children, guests, or out in public at all. She attempted to bite on several occassions senior citizens and children. Was quite soft and very fearful..nothing good about that dog aside from her looks.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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well I have to admit , as I have done so before , that I just do not know enough about Czech bred lines , nor with all my tenacious attempts to get facts , fail to any . When Czech pedigrees come up for discussion the discussion tends to end . Cliff provides information via PM's which is a shame as the information is never brought out to the light to be examined , accepted, challenged , corrected.

Personally having owned a few Czech imports , and blends including Cherokee v d Wolfen . I did not see anything super special . Definitely not the genetic obedience part being so willing and available to work / anticipate in co operation . More commando type - give an order and they will do it . The keen thinking required of a herding dog was just not there . Historically and genetically they were not chosen for herding genetics , so selection determined results , much as selection for show determines results. In the case of the Czech dogs the selection was still for a positive work dog , no compromises there .
What chocked me was the accelerated aging . Side by side with one of mine , a 12 year old "mine" looked and acted (s) (still with us) younger and brighter than a 6 or 7 year old "Czech" dog .
Same diet , same environment . Like looking at time lapse photography. Got me puzzled to the point where I had deep discussions with a research scientist friend specializing in genetics , epi-genetics (the external forces which create a gene response which can be passed on through generations)contributor to genomic studies, and working on telomeres which determine longevity. He came up with an interesting speculation. He wondered if Chernobyl and the wide casting radiation could have damaged genetic material .

Experiences , rambling , lot to cover.
People would look at a pedigree , example my Case , mother of Gus and others (PSDs) Carmspack Case . They see Xero Pohranicni Straze and then say she , Case , is a nice Czech dog. NO. Even the sire of Case, Iwo , has little Czech as Xero himself has linebreeding on great DDR lines - which bring in Bernd Lierberg through the Himpel breeding , and Bushecke and Stephanstal (tracking!) Gomo vom Schieferschloß more DDR on the Grim , Xero sire side.
When I bought Iwo I was particularly interested in his dam and her genetics , having followed that litter combination . Blenda's "brother" (repeat litter) Tarek was KNPV met lof ---- at a young age - with a large point margin over the second place ... consistently , and he was a working police dog of note in New Jersey , and a stunningly good looking dog. The Blenda pedigree brought in some tough , rugged , dogs . Exactly what I am interested in .
so Iwo , genetic obedience - nah -- new category -- butt head . Even so his first generation progeny had it and second generation represented by NICHOLAS had it in spades -- glaringly obvious - Nick and his brother and again all 3 in a repeat of Nicholas . high thresholds , not an ounce of handler aggression or nerviness -- body and attitude like a brick outhouse . Nothing would shake this dog . Prey drive -- oh brother -- no ball / play whatsoever - no rag , no tug . Had power-decoy address him - high threshold , and then bango- who woke you up dog. Full , hard , from the core . On , then off . Never had any health issues whatsoever (which I expect) , not one soft stool , even after digging up chicken carcasses we had to bury after a power failure , extended time in record breaking heat wave --(city garbage would not take it) . Not so much as a burp!
Always looked polished and buff . remember this for later -- Tested him on a female , my breeding so very familiar with the pedigree in many dimensions - hoo - good results !!! and the combination has never failed even as we depart from this combination .
LSatovs female Journey shares this pedigree Carmspack Sumo where you can see Iwo layered in twice , and new Czech lines through Colin Malemi who also goes back to some olde ddr faves.

So having used Iwo strategically and having sons and daughters to carry on with I placed him with good friend and long time GSD person , Sheena of FraserGlen GSD . There he became more of a house-dog enjoying the company of the two resident GSD's . Perfect health, sired a good litter Fraserglens Moto . Then I get a call - dog is suddenly unwell -- days later deceased , inspite of all efforts , hemangiosarcoma -- no warning , no intervention would have had a different outcome. That was a heart breaker.

The Cherokee Wolfen dog --- Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Cherokee x Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Fani --- came to me with a BH , Brevet and SchH ready --- lot of problems - which I put to training and too early SPORT conditioning --- handler aggressive - you had to watch yourself , low thresholds, easily stimulated , not so clear , took aggression far to much into play , but it wasn't play ! had hard time settling . Very dog aggressive . Small dogs were quarry , and even male GSD were attacked . I did not expose my dogs to her after that . Very vigilant management . Although I paid well for this female I never bred her -
Blitz , the one thing that I would recommend to you is to take a break from sport development with your dog and let him/her age out a bit first .
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
I have a granddaughter of Brawnson through a son Stuka. She is about 8 months now.

Pro's:
Plenty of Prey / posession loves to bite anything. I could reward her with stick, hose, ball, tug whatever.
Love her structure, nice bone and size on her
Fairly social (especially off property)
Quick recovery if something startles her (doesnt shut down or go into complete avoidance usually will go and check out the unknown whatever)
Very handler/helper hard, NOT a soft dog so far
Very aware of her environment
Seems fairly confident on most surfaces I have tried her on. (wasnt a fan of tables or benches but with minimal coaxing was up and doing some tug on a couple or taking food)
Great grip/entry on the bite
Uses her nose a lot
Barks like a male

Cons:
-Is dog reactive (fear) though once she meets the dog she will play with no further issues. Doesnt like horses either (amish ones trotting by).
-Has some issues settling in the house, but that could be her age. (This has been improving with certain management techniques)
-Had a bad fear stage as a young pup 8weeks-12weeks, though she did a 180 with some age and exposure to various stimuli
-Is sharp on our property (not off) (hackles barks but will meet people and becomes friendly) especially at night and also towards people acting out of the norm at night. Have yet to figure if this is a nerve issue, maturity related or her age. (She may be in another fear stage)


Her age makes it hard to be definitive on what she is and isnt especially nerve wise. She seems to be a bit of a late bloomer in some ways so only time will tell.

I will be doing pre lims in a couple months so hopefully all is well there. Currently racing around on icey hills and jumping all over me and everything else with no signs of discomfort.


Here is a vid of her learning to bark for the tug and doing some grip work in a crowded room full of people, she was like this the first time she came in to work no hesitation doing prey work with a stranger.

Tazmania vd Sportwaffen Bitework - YouTube

Her pedigree

Tazmania von den Sportwaffen


Lol! That's so weird. Dakota basically does ALL the pros you listed, ALL. I'm serious.
The cons, yes, basically all but not the fear stage or settling in the house.
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