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-   -   Towards Personal Protection Dog, allow strangers to pet and fondle puppy or not? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/police-k-9/195566-towards-personal-protection-dog-allow-strangers-pet-fondle-puppy-not.html)

lone Ranger 12-02-2012 05:13 PM

Towards Personal Protection Dog, allow strangers to pet and fondle puppy or not?
 
Two GSDs raised... 60 y.o. Man... I travel in remote areas of Australia, with $250-500K in equipment. He will be a near constant companion except in the city at times, and will travel with me in the Bush. Best Mate, but there is a Security Function he needs to fill. That will be his job. He will be mostly just deterent, but must bluff well enough to do a security function. We cannot travel interstate with guns in Australia, so he will be headed towards a PPD function. When I am not around, NO ONE approaches him..

For a certain degree of Social Aggression, should I allow him to be touched by strangers? You know, everyone want to pet and love up a puppy.. Or should it be a bond with just me handling him (definitely at first).

I am looking for your Security Minded Advice. I am thinking: If anything have strangers make him a little uncomfortable? He will be large for a GSD, Black, intimidating already. I am just thinking I do not want him to be looking to strangers for affection, but be more mistrustful, for the security function he will perform. Your thoughts?

Thank you from Australia

llombardo 12-02-2012 05:23 PM

The standard temperament for a GSD is...Temperament is confident, fearless but aloof; eager, alert, and willing to work. If the dog comes from a good background it will have all the traits you are looking for. If you just want the dog as a deterrent, then you are off to a good start. Others will chime in, but my belief is that you don't want a dog that will bark at everything or attack everything..you want a dog that can tell the difference between good and bad. My GSD loves people, but she doesn't go out of her way to approach strangers, if its family then she turns into a excited puppy. She was heavily socialized with other dogs, cats, people, little people, etc. When she was younger I allowed anyone that asked to pet her, but again I must say that if we go to the pet store now she doesn't approach them, but they(mostly the workers because they have known her since she was a puppy) will approach her and she will accept it. She doesn't bark at everything, so when she does bark I know something isn't right.

x11 12-02-2012 05:33 PM

i would have thought the standard thing is to have yr dog exposed to as many different people as possible in order to develop confidence socially regardless of PPD or not. unless yr dog is going to live it's whole life in the same backyard and never leave it and it attacks everything that approaches regardless.

i don't mean they all should molest yr dog but the pup should be exposed to neutral strangers of every race, color and creed jmo especially children.

best done with like minded folks if possible.

my guess is having yr pup a little uncomfortable around starngers will be greatly counter-productive to a PPD, i would want a PPD prospect to be comfortable around everyone and everything and go from there.

power comes from strength and strength comes from confidence and confidence is most easily destroyed by having a puppy uncomfortable around strange people or strange things. all jmo.

seems you have a lot of things to sort thru which is fine, hope you get them sorted before you get this pup.

please feel free to put me on ignore or just say don't post on yr threads if you think i am being rude or whatever. just trying to help yr pup and you with what little experience i have gained - not an expert. most experts you will have to pay for advice, the rest of us help out where we can.

lone Ranger 12-02-2012 07:41 PM

Thank you x11,

I am trying to resolve this now, because I am picking up the pup, visited twice, at 10 weeks in January 15. 10 weeks, because I am living the "Dances With Wolves" a bit, out with horses, last frontier in Oz (Australia). Ten weeks old because I am doing a 10 day Yellowstone dead of winter trip by SnowCat and snowmobile to see the wolves in action where the animals gather around the thermal events.. He will be in some basic obedience training with the Breeders whom I trust, and I will go get him as soon as I return, and he will be with me at work at Bushtracker, and home, ALL the time.. I am doing this study pre work now, as I leave for Yellowstone end of December.

I am gathering as many opinions as possible, so I can do this properly. I can judge a bit by the posts on this Forum, and hopefully reach a consensus of opinion. He will bond with me 24 hours a day, 24/7. He will seldom be left in a yard on my horse property.. After the first few months he will get plenty of socialization, I am just unsure on the first 5 months or so, about greeting everyone with lick and tail wag to get petted and attention. I thought maybe I should keep him a bit out of the public coddling at first.. Maybe this is a middle ground. I will have children socialize with him, there is no reason to have ANY hostility around children. I was just unsure about adult strangers.. I can see two views and possibilities on this.

Maybe I will do both, isolation while bonding, then more public exposure and for sure children interaction in friendly play.. Never know, I might have Grandchildren some day, likely with 3 kids of my own now grown.

Thank you for your frank answers, even blunt you are to the point and I can see your experience showing through.. No offense taken, here or on the other Thread.

lone Ranger, on Oz..

lone Ranger 12-02-2012 07:49 PM

Just a followup: Not a brag but, I am as successful as I am, 48 Employees, because I do not do things haphazardly. I try and plan, gather information from experts like you, and then calculate my course as scientifically as possible. This pup means a lot to me, and I have three weeks to decide how to handle him. I am gone to Yellowstone dead of winter on Expedition to see wolves in action around the thermal events end of December, and will not be back to pick up the pup until he is 10 weeks old Jan 15. I trust the Breeders, and they will teach him basic obedience in my absence.

I live "Dances with Wolves", out on the last frontier in Australia.. Love Shepherds as my best mate, and don't want to make any more mistakes. I respect your advice on this matter.

lone Ranger

GSDElsa 12-02-2012 07:55 PM

I think when your dog is a PUPPY you should absolutely let strangers handle them. Puppies should think people are AWESOME and puppies should be well socialized. As your dog matures and that natural aloofness starts to get developed, then avoid from strangers getting touchy-feely. You want your dog to not be friendly, but you don't want your dog to not know how to interact with "good" people either. But young puppies is another story....as long as you are comforatble with the person I say let them play. Obviously if you have reservations about the person for whatever reason then pass.

llombardo 12-02-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone Ranger (Post 2645273)
Thank you x11,

. After the first few months he will get plenty of socialization, I am just unsure on the first 5 months or so, .

This is the most important time for socialization. A GSD is not a dog that you don't want socialized. Socialization is the key to getting a well rounded dog, well that and the genes. This dog will bond with you in training and just being with you...they know who there owners are. There is also no reason for this dog to be hostile around adults either...your looking for a lawsuit, because if this dog bites it will mean business. Just this dog going into an alert mode is enough for people to back down. People run the other way when they see mine, its actually very disturbing. I've also had people ask me if its okay to walk past me, which is really crazy, but the whole time my dog doesn't make a peep, but she watches and she watches very intently. I'm interested in hearing what your breeder said to do with the pup?

llombardo 12-02-2012 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone Ranger (Post 2645125)
[B][I]I asked this in the general puppy section, but would also like the opinion of Professionals please.. [/U]

This is crazy:crazy:So us regular people who own a GSD don't know what we are talking about? You didn't like the answers in the original posts? I highly doubt that your going to get anyone to say that your new puppy doesn't need to be socialized. This is a forum, some people have years of experience with this breed. How do you think the rest of us learn? Yep us regular folks know how to read and research too..

GSDElsa 12-02-2012 08:16 PM

I think he wanted the opinion from PPD/K-9 trainers since that is what his dog will be and raising that type of dog can indeed be very different than your average dog owner :) I don't think he meant any offense by it (and I'm not a PPD trainer, as you can see I still took it upon myself to comment lol)

Freestep 12-02-2012 08:32 PM

My opinion is that a PP dog needs to have a good sense of discrimination, needs to know who is a bad guy and who is just a guy minding his own business. The only way for a dog to learn discrimination is to meet as many people as possible, from an early age. Introduce him to people of every age, sex, appearance and color... kids running and playing like kids do... teenagers being teenagers... bicycles, joggers, strollers, horses, skateboards, other dogs, policemen and other uniforms, men in hats, men with beards, babies, etc. etc. etc.

Only then is a pup going to learn that most people are just fine, so he doesn't need to fear or feel defensive over the benign day-to-day activities of normal people.

Then, at a certain phase of maturity and training, you will introduce a "bad guy", and the dog learns to recognize what a real threat looks like. Because he already knows what isn't a real threat, your dog is not going to go off half-cocked over every stranger walking by.

It is, of course, very important that the dog have the correct temperament for this kind of work. Confident, clear-headed, stable, strong-nerved and biddable. If the dog is the least bit insecure, nervous, or fearful, he's not a good candidate as a PP dog. He'll look intimidating from behind the fence, but you can't count on him to protect you when push comes to shove.


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