Towards Personal Protection Dog, allow strangers to pet and fondle puppy or not? - Page 5

**DFrost** · 12-05-2012, 08:14 PM

Lone Ranger, you aren't being totally fair in your summation of "professionals". Most police trainers don't buy puppies so we really don't have the experience with puppies in general. we buy adult dogs. They can be tested to ensure they have the nerves, behaviors etc we are looking for. That way we don't wast 18 months to find out the dog is a nerve bag.

PPD professionals may do it differently, but that's not my area of expertise.

DFrost

lone Ranger · 12-05-2012, 08:52 PM

Hey, don't flog the messenger.. A couple of them indicated they also raised their own with their own Bloodline. I am only reporting on what was sent to me and they were advising me on how to do this.. Several times I invited them to put their comments on the Forum, and they declined, hinting at some kind unspecified backlash to their advice...

On the puppy socialization I would have put it all off to just other opinions, but their comments were very consistant on their advice on socialization with strangers. I for one am taking this on board. This was only my clumsy my attempt to paraphrase them for others benefits, but I think I have done a fair job of it.

They have convinced me, and it made sense.. For me, I think this Thread is "Job Done"...

Lucy Dog · 12-06-2012, 12:11 AM

What makes you think these people giving you this information are "professionals" - whether it's correct information or not?

I'd think true "professionals" with real PPD training experience would at least voice an opinion in a thread like this if they were going to go out of their way and pm or email you.

lone Ranger · 12-06-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

What makes you think these people giving you this information are "professionals" - whether it's correct information or not?

I'd think true "professionals" with real PPD training experience would at least voice an opinion in a thread like this if they were going to go out of their way and pm or email you.

Lucy Dog, honestly I do not know the why. They were real, and trying to help. Most of them gave me their Credentials, or experience, or a working Website, and such.. They had their reasons, and I got about 7-8 emails on the Bushtracker emaill and PMs. At least half I invited to post on this thread, and I think 3? wrote back and voiced a degree of reluctance for some reason. Look I am new here, not trying to stir things up.. One mentioned history of conflicts "banned" (I don't have a clue what that means) and one mentioned problems with "Mods" (again no idea). Look I do not know what it even means nor do I want to answer anything more on this. One I asked permission to quote, and they gave permission but were firm on anonynimity sp?

I paraphrased all their advice together. It was only noteworthy as the context of their advice was very uniform, like consistent.

Now this is all off track, I posted something I thought might be of value. Please no more questions on the sources as they must have had their reasons.

codmaster · 12-06-2012, 01:24 AM

OTOH, my wife and I once met a very well known "old German" judge who was alo very big in the US GSD community. He and his wife asked my wife (totally not a dog person except that she really liked GSD'S) to take their big male GSD for a walk around the show wemet them at. So she did by herself! And walked around with this beautiful male dog for almost 40 minutes and then she returned as plaesed as could be - said that the dog was "GREAT". THEN we find out that this dog had once scored the highest in Protection at theirannual Seiger show and had also been trained in PP.

THAT was what a trained dog should be - very social and trustworthy in public BUT - anyone doubt what would he hppened if anyone had messed with my wife while they were walking around? I don't!

That is assuming of course that the dog has to also be around in public!

codmaster · 12-06-2012, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone Ranger

Lucy Dog, honestly I do not know the why. They were real, and trying to help. Most of them gave me their Credentials, or experience, or a working Website, and such.. They had their reasons, and I got about 7-8 emails on the Bushtracker emaill and PMs. At least half I invited to post on this thread, and I think 3? wrote back and voiced a degree of reluctance for some reason. Look I am new here, not trying to stir things up.. One mentioned history of conflicts "banned" (I don't have a clue what that means) and one mentioned problems with "Mods" (again no idea). Look I do not know what it even means nor do I want to answer anything more on this. One I asked permission to quote, and they gave permission but were firm on anonynimity sp?

I paraphrased all their advice together. It was only noteworthy as the context of their advice was very uniform, like consistent.

Now this is all off track, I posted something I thought might be of value. Please no more questions on the sources as they must have had their reasons.

"An opinion with no author has no value"

Some famous person once said that but I don't recall who said it! But it does sound like it has some value.

bianca · 12-06-2012, 04:01 AM

Loneranger would you mind private messaging me who you are getting your pup from if you wouldn't mind please? Just out of general curiosity, nothing sinister.

I have a solid black WL boy

TommyB681 · 12-06-2012, 12:12 PM

With a personal protection dog you have to be strict when they are young and in training. Showing them affection is fine and healthy but when it comes to strangers and appropriate affection be cautious

lone Ranger · 12-06-2012, 09:16 PM

TommyB681,
I agree.. From what help I have been able to gather, my summation of their advice is done in those items paraphrased 1-5 in that back Post... In my journey to get a dog along the path as far as possible to well socialized but also PPD as far as I can get, those paraphrased 1-5 items are going to be my guidelines. I did not do too bad a job with my current Alpha male Dakota (Cody). He would burr up (puff up and display aggression) on command, barking, and approach a stranger coming in the gate until called off half way. I did this now and then to test him, and apologized to the strangers, no risk as Cody was FLAWLESS on recall. In his nearly ten years, there has really not been any extreme aggression except on command, he would go everywhere with me in public. He was only extreme when chained up in a truck or trailer, and then with him at the end of his chain going off with the bad dog bark, no one has been game to challenge him further. He was well socialized, but knew when he was on duty (chained up or in a locked yard) and was great with people and kids in public. He would go off his head on command, but never put to the test. I either got lucky with him (most probable), or know a little bit of what I am doing. My 1-5 in the Post a page back in this Thread, stands for what I will do with this next pup...

Bianca: I will keep them confidential until I speak with them. They know me through Reining Horse Competitions and are Hobby people not Professional puppy breeders. They breed a couple litters per year, and train for fun with Professionals and a club. The Sire, a big black Euro style dog is not theirs. They do have a fabulous stud, a bit big at 70 cm at the shoulder and 50 kg a big Sable wolf, is temporarily sterile (hopefully) due to a reaction to a new monthly flea pill. Too big to mount a Bitch they were doing A.I. when it was discovered he had no swimmers...

Anyway, I trust them.. They have no puppies available. I was given pick of the two males in this litter, my pick, with their advice. One male would just not stand still to be held, and was all over the place. The other male was more controllable, bigger muzzle -head -and feet, and seemed to pay attention to who was handling him and he was my pick even though I was looking for a shorter coat. Hard to tell at my four week pick, he may be a "Glamour Coat" not long hair but not short hair either. The Breeder has said their experience with that medium coat was that it often shed less than the short coat. That was true with mine, Cody a short coat leaves hair EVERYWHERE, and Wakan Tonka my de-sexed female has a glamour coat and sheds very little except for about twice a year and it comes off in clumps..

Others: From all I have gathered in ten years with my own 67 cm at shoulder GSD, and with professionals and on this Forum: The better Trained a Dog is towards personal protection, the more stable he is and less likely to throw random aggression unless commanded to, or to protect his handler... That has been my overall experience...

Kind regards, lone Ranger...

x11 · 12-06-2012, 10:46 PM

well that wraps it all up nicely, how many other threads here have ever been this successful, guy who likes to do scientific research and plan every detail was looking for a PPD and came to the conclusions that a show line dog that has a straight back euro style wolf bred by hobbyists who do reigning competitions and produce oversize glamour coated dogs and receives secret advice too secret to state publicly cos the mods here have "agendas" and paraphrased items 1 - 5 from a page back are the new guidelines.......

as long as we are all happy...

12-05-2012, 08:14 PM	#41 (permalink)
DFrost Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tn Posts: 878	Lone Ranger, you aren't being totally fair in your summation of "professionals". Most police trainers don't buy puppies so we really don't have the experience with puppies in general. we buy adult dogs. They can be tested to ensure they have the nerves, behaviors etc we are looking for. That way we don't wast 18 months to find out the dog is a nerve bag. PPD professionals may do it differently, but that's not my area of expertise. DFrost __________________ Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. DFrost

12-06-2012, 12:11 AM	#43 (permalink)
Lucy Dog Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,019	What makes you think these people giving you this information are "professionals" - whether it's correct information or not? I'd think true "professionals" with real PPD training experience would at least voice an opinion in a thread like this if they were going to go out of their way and pm or email you. Last edited by Lucy Dog; 12-06-2012 at 12:13 AM.

12-06-2012, 04:01 AM	#47 (permalink)
bianca Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 3,474	Loneranger would you mind private messaging me who you are getting your pup from if you wouldn't mind please? Just out of general curiosity, nothing sinister. I have a solid black WL boy __________________ Miss Molly Moo (aka The Piranha/The four legged Mouth) GSD 31/10 Raennik Hassan (Cooper) GSD 19/10/11 Paris Tabby Cat 15 years Texas Tabby Cat 15 years Last edited by bianca; 12-06-2012 at 04:03 AM.

12-05-2012, 08:52 PM	#42 (permalink)
lone Ranger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 280	Hey, don't flog the messenger.. A couple of them indicated they also raised their own with their own Bloodline. I am only reporting on what was sent to me and they were advising me on how to do this.. Several times I invited them to put their comments on the Forum, and they declined, hinting at some kind unspecified backlash to their advice... *On the puppy socialization I would have put it all off to just other opinions, but their comments were very consistant on their advice on socialization with strangers.* I for one am taking this on board. This was only my clumsy my attempt to paraphrase them for others benefits, but I think I have done a fair job of it. They have convinced me, and it made sense.. For me, I think this Thread is "Job Done"...

12-06-2012, 01:24 AM	#45 (permalink)
codmaster Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: California, US Posts: 5,928	OTOH, my wife and I once met a very well known "old German" judge who was alo very big in the US GSD community. He and his wife asked my wife (totally not a dog person except that she really liked GSD'S) to take their big male GSD for a walk around the show wemet them at. So she did by herself! And walked around with this beautiful male dog for almost 40 minutes and then she returned as plaesed as could be - said that the dog was "GREAT". THEN we find out that this dog had once scored the highest in Protection at theirannual Seiger show and had also been trained in PP. THAT was what a trained dog should be - very social and trustworthy in public BUT - anyone doubt what would he hppened if anyone had messed with my wife while they were walking around? I don't! That is assuming of course that the dog has to also be around in public!

12-06-2012, 12:12 PM	#48 (permalink)
TommyB681 Master Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Claymont, DE Posts: 550	With a personal protection dog you have to be strict when they are young and in training. Showing them affection is fine and healthy but when it comes to strangers and appropriate affection be cautious

12-06-2012, 09:16 PM	#49 (permalink)
lone Ranger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 280	*TommyB681, I agree.. From what help I have been able to gather, my summation of their advice is done in those items paraphrased 1-5 in that back Post... In my journey to get a dog along the path as far as possible to well socialized but also PPD as far as I can get, those paraphrased 1-5 items are going to be my guidelines. I did not do too bad a job with my current Alpha male Dakota (Cody). He would burr up (puff up and display aggression) on command, barking, and approach a stranger coming in the gate until called off half way. I did this now and then to test him, and apologized to the strangers, no risk as Cody was FLAWLESS* on recall. In his nearly ten years, there has really not been any extreme aggression except on command, he would go everywhere with me in public. He was only extreme when chained up in a truck or trailer, and then with him at the end of his chain going off with the bad dog bark, no one has been game to challenge him further. He was well socialized, but knew when he was on duty (chained up or in a locked yard) and was great with people and kids in public. He would go off his head on command, but never put to the test. I either got lucky with him (most probable), or know a little bit of what I am doing. My 1-5 in the Post a page back in this Thread, stands for what I will do with this next pup... *Bianca:* I will keep them confidential until I speak with them. They know me through Reining Horse Competitions and are Hobby people not Professional puppy breeders. They breed a couple litters per year, and train for fun with Professionals and a club. The Sire, a big black Euro style dog is not theirs. They do have a fabulous stud, a bit big at 70 cm at the shoulder and 50 kg a big Sable wolf, is temporarily sterile (hopefully) due to a reaction to a new monthly flea pill. Too big to mount a Bitch they were doing A.I. when it was discovered he had no swimmers... Anyway, I trust them.. They have no puppies available. I was given pick of the two males in this litter, my pick, with their advice. One male would just not stand still to be held, and was all over the place. The other male was more controllable, bigger muzzle -head -and feet, and seemed to pay attention to who was handling him and he was my pick even though I was looking for a shorter coat. Hard to tell at my four week pick, he may be a "Glamour Coat" not long hair but not short hair either. The Breeder has said their experience with that medium coat was that it often shed less than the short coat. That was true with mine, Cody a short coat leaves hair EVERYWHERE, and Wakan Tonka my de-sexed female has a glamour coat and sheds very little except for about twice a year and it comes off in clumps.. Others: From all I have gathered in ten years with my own 67 cm at shoulder GSD, and with professionals and on this Forum: The better Trained a Dog is towards personal protection, the more stable he is and less likely to throw random aggression unless commanded to, or to protect his handler... That has been my overall experience... Kind regards, lone Ranger...

12-06-2012, 10:46 PM	#50 (permalink)
x11 Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,291	well that wraps it all up nicely, how many other threads here have ever been this successful, guy who likes to do scientific research and plan every detail was looking for a PPD and came to the conclusions that a show line dog that has a straight back euro style wolf bred by hobbyists who do reigning competitions and produce oversize glamour coated dogs and receives secret advice too secret to state publicly cos the mods here have "agendas" and paraphrased items 1 - 5 from a page back are the new guidelines....... as long as we are all happy...

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