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Old 12-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Well, not being as well schooled in the GSDs Gentypes as you, not knowing about this Forum, not living in America with such vast resources, I did the best I could to get a Pup as close as possible before Cody dies. There are probably only 2-3 just working dog Breeders and no male pups available. They are often spoken for before they are born.

x11 I did the best I could, am going to get a second one in about 18 months, or sooner if this little fellow does not work out... But I have faith he will be just fine. Your comments are exactly why I did not want to put on the Ped, you cannot compare our resources here with what is in your 300 million people pool. The last person wanting what I want, waiting for the perfect bloodline, waited 18 months for a pup, and that is no guarantee. Sire and Dam are flat backed very good x-ray scores. This was the best available in Australia that I could find and I wanted black.

This is replacement Therapy for me losing my Mate... Cody on medication is still limping, and will only do a short run and frolic play before he slows right back to a trot. He cannot beat his companion desexed Bitch Tonka to toys I throw anymore. He knows it and does not bring them too me for play, he is in trouble. I was hoping to capture some of his personality as the pup mimics the Alpha Dog before he passes on. So I did the best I could, but if he is not right he can be moved on or live at my horse property and I will go back shopping for a better pup. Actually, I want two of them, and don't care if I have a whole wolf pack at the property.

x11, if you have any more bad news about his Ped, please don't tell me. I am hoping for the best.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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relax ranger, i am not trying to bring you bad news.

i thought you were on a different journey in yr original posts is all, now you talk about this deal as "...replacement Therapy for me losing my Mate... ".

thats totally cool but is not what i thought you originally asked for help with.

neither journey is right or wrong or better or worse.

you assume i live in the states.

best wishes.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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working GSD in Australia - von Forell -- Law Enforcement Dogs | Law Enforcement Dogs . Your little black guy is show lines - but looks like a good solid build -
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:50 PM   #34 (permalink)
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you assume i live in the states.
Ahha......so you are an Aussie pretending to be an American.......I knew it!!!

My friend has a Von Forell dog......he is a very nice boy.....our dogs are closely related which is not hard to do here in OZ.

Last edited by sparra; 12-04-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Ahha what? pretend what?......you know what?????
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:33 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Carmspack,
Thank you for the lead to Von Forell.. If I lived in Melbourne, it might be a good thing to get involved with them, their Bloodlines, their training, but that is 2,200 kms away. I am going down there in March, might touch base and see their dogs... I hate ordering a pup blind, most like this are spoken for before you can see them, and 2,200 kms is a bit of a drive.

Carmspack, Show lines? I had no idea. Without this Forum and not knowing the Ped, I did what I could. The ones in the Pedigree could see pictures of, most did not qualify to be Show Dogs as they were too tall for one. The dogs I saw at the Breeder were oversized to Show dogs, bigger bones, and more of the flat back style, where the Show Dogs in Australia normally have the drop off on the back, sort of arch back down angle to the hips.. And fairer bones. Not knowing better that is what I got in Cody ten years ago. If this little Black Fellow does not have the protective and alert tempermant with high drive, that I am looking for, I will soon get another.. He is to be a Best Mate, but he has a job to do.

Interestingly, back on track, Law Enforcement/PPD Owners have commented reservations on having too much public handling of the puppy by PM to help. The same with the PPD Trainers I contacted by email. They are more reserved about this puppy public socialization bit. And I can see both sides. There seems to be a little different view, not wanting the puppy to look to everyone for affection and entertainment.. But be a little selective on who pets and handles him as a pup. Let there be a lot of interaction with children, but a little less affection from just general public, maybe only friends and family.

There does seem to be a middle ground opinion here... Thank you
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Ahha what? pretend what?......you know what?????
Relax.....I was just joking around....hence the wink and the smile.....never mind.....
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Important summation, info sharing here on the forum:

Wow, I have discovered something here... There is an undercurrent from Professionals that do not want to be in conflict with the Moderators or catch flack from the GSD pet owning Public for their views...(no offence intended, I am just trying to describe a category of general GSD pet Owner)

The Professionals are not adding to this Thread much. Their view is a little different, and I have gotten it in about the same substance from about 8 sources now, by Messaging, and email through Bushtracker, from Police, Guard, Security, and PPD Professional sorts. They did not want to go Public, for reservations about flack for "political correctness" or conflicts with Moderators for showing a side they did not want the public to see?? (guessing on my part)... That is a little sad for this Forum, but when I encounter it I am going to paraphrase the results for others like myself to benefit from. Here are their points, I will not copy, I am paraphrasing their results as their answers were amazingly consistant:

1) Go out of your way to have all children, be able to come up and love the puppy. This is an important function, the puppy should never perceive the Children as anything but fun and attention, and be very comfortable with them at all times. Children are NEVER a threat...

2) Socialization is at various levels, and no it is not in your best interests to have just any Adult come up and fawn all over the puppy. Only allow ones that ask permission, or Friends and Family, and of course ALL Children. Asking permission is an important part. It introduces the dog to people that you think are alright.

3) The GSD trait is to be a bit aloof anyway, do not expose the puppy to just anyone approaching and being overly friendly, it is not in your best interests for any kind of security or protection. Strangers just coming up without permission can end up being a distraction to the dog, further can work against you, as most with Criminal Intent are well practiced at looking friendly and normal before they strike...

4) Only allow people that you are comfortable with approach the puppy, not just any random stranger, and again by permission... Anyone you have any misgivings about, or something not right with them, do not allow them to approach or handle the puppy.

5) Finally on Liability, it seems that they agree that the more Training the dog has, the less likely there is to be any kind of random aggression without your command. They just will not take it on themselves to randomly lash out at someone, unless of course their Handler/Owner is attacked or commands them to respond. In other words, they all seem to say that the more training the dog has, the safer he is.

The exception is Military and Police extreme attack trained dogs, some do not think they can return to the public because of potential misuse or accidental use of their commands, and sadly they say if the Handler does not get them, they are often "put down"... ****...

Anyway, in summary: If you want a dog that is a little more protection oriented, then the answer to this Thread from the Professionals is a little more reserved than what has been stated here. Sadly the Professionals when invited to post their answers on the thread, declined and hinted or expressed reservations about putting their answers here due to backlash or some unspecified friction.. One final quote that really stood out, and I actually got their permission to quote them, (they said it was not their original, possibly from the Breeds Developer) Quote is something like this: "You cannot expect your German Shepherd to protect the Sheep from the Wolves, if he is friends with the Wolves"

I hope this has been a help, I thank all of you that answered this Thread. I think the guidelines above are realistic and I accept them as the way to go..

Personally I think this Forum is GREAT.. And it is helping me a lot. Only weeks til I get my 3rd and hopefully best GSD... Parents are big boned, low 2/3 to 0/0 hip and elbow x-ray scores, and kind of flat back and oversized to the show dogs maximums..

Kind regards, lone Ranger out on the "Last Frontier" with GSDs and Horses...
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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The Professionals are not adding to this Thread much. Their view is a little different, and I have gotten it in about the same substance from about 8 sources now, by Messaging, and email through Bushtracker, from Police, Guard, Security, and PPD Professional sorts. ...They did not want to go Public, for reservations about flack for "political correctness" or conflicts with Moderators for showing a side they did not want the public to see?? (guessing on my part)...



Last edited by KatsMuse; 12-05-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
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