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Old 09-09-2012, 11:01 AM   #31 (permalink)
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As a civilian, I appreciate this kind of information because I realize the tremendous responsiblity in keeping clear and accurate training records, documenting hours of training etc. and why you absolutely must have national certifications.

The courts have been very reasonable with regards to cadaver dog handlers (perhaps because they don't establish probable cause) but I see the bar constantly being raised and realize bad results in court by one sloppy handler can reflect poorly on all. Nobody wants to be done as the handler who ruined it for everyone else (like the damage done by Sandra Anderson).

I have been documenting our own training reliability (and ensuring my training records contain the SWDOG recommended fields) using the SWGDOG SC2 formula on "blind" problems only but am unclear about if those percentages *should* be kept for maintenance training and if they should be recalculated for intervals between certifications

The NAPWDA cert exceeds the SWGDOG guidelines as it requires 92% with one allowed FA (and if you get a FA, you need 100% because only one mistake is allowed) for the the entire set of problems. NASAR and IPWDA are valid for 2 years which I wonder how the difference between them and SWGDOG would be addressed since SWGDOG has been brought up in court? NNDDA, USPCA? (test not available to civilians)--
Two year cert is not industry standard and will ultimately have problems. IPWDA standards were too ambiquous for my taste last time I looked. And the double blind stuff is faddish. It is the latest "thing" though and has to be payed attention to. For me, I keep stats from known and blinds seperate just in case in comes into play later. You are correct about the slopppy handlers. It is happening. NNDDA standards have held recently in court in a supression hearing as reliable which makes me feel good. I wrote them. also, articulate with regard to ALL proofing. Animal and other. It came up in court. Defense will grab whatever they can. Be aware of the blood issue that I have harped about for years. It came up in the Casey Anthony trial. That is why I simply do not train on blood and have not. I knew it would eventually come up.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #32 (permalink)
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It is why I was happy when NAPWDA switched to bone and tissue for cert requirements, both fresh and old...no blood. SWGDOG allows Blood. NAPWDA and IPWDA allow blood.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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It is why I was happy when NAPWDA switched to bone and tissue for cert requirements, both fresh and old...no blood. SWGDOG allows Blood. NAPWDA and IPWDA allow blood.

SWGDOG just offers guidelines. IPWDA allows psuedo and the standards refer to cadaver material which could cover a plethra of things none of which I would train a dog on.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Actually, too, I meant NASAR and IPWDA allow blood. NAPWDA got away from that. Too late to edit.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Actually, too, I meant NASAR and IPWDA allow blood. NAPWDA got away from that. Too late to edit.

too many Ns and As.....
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KaroSkocickaSamotaZM,ZOP,ZPU,FPR,FPR,ZVV1,ZZZ,ZZP, RHE,ZM TART, IRO titled SAR dog
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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The last three suppression hearings in which I've testified, SWGDOG was brought up by the defense. The questions to me, were (in general); 1. Was I aware SWGDOG 2. Did I know who the members were (agencies). Were our policies and procedures consistent with SWGDOG guidelines.

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Old 09-09-2012, 05:39 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The last three suppression hearings in which I've testified, SWGDOG was brought up by the defense. The questions to me, were (in general); 1. Was I aware SWGDOG 2. Did I know who the members were (agencies). Were our policies and procedures consistent with SWGDOG guidelines.

DFrost

Oh I know. SWG in many fields so defense is familiar.at least they finally got some representation from police service dog orgs to help those
phds....
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KaroSkocickaSamotaZM,ZOP,ZPU,FPR,FPR,ZVV1,ZZZ,ZZP, RHE,ZM TART, IRO titled SAR dog
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:10 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Actually, I agree with a majority of the guidelines they've presented to date. I have to tell you though, I'm 99.9% certain I'll be retired NLT April of 13. It's been a great ride, but I think I'll ride off (on my Cushman Motor Scooters) into the sunset. ha ha ha

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Old 09-09-2012, 06:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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They have improved them. The first HRD was unbelievable ...
Well, I will eventually retire... again..... LOL
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KaroSkocickaSamotaZM,ZOP,ZPU,FPR,FPR,ZVV1,ZZZ,ZZP, RHE,ZM TART, IRO titled SAR dog
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Shades of gray in documentation as well. I called this a "miss", I think appropriately. I know some folks take some real artistic license with their training records. To me a miss is a miss, log it, fix it, move on.

Just got back from working some unknowns. The pup needed help. He was correct in how he was working the odor, just did not have much experience (yet) with this type of scenario.

Unknown hide 5 foot up in group of small trees. Sun hitting it hard. He was catching scent in adjacent woods and working it to death until he was foaming at the mouth and panting like mad (but no indication)...I correctly explained I thought it was lofting to the person who set up the problem, and started detailing what I thought would be logically be a correct area (note to self-take windicator!) but was detailing the wrong area to no avail. I finally said. "Ok help me narrow it down-he has not worked that many high outdoor hides yet and we need to finish this one" (He had already worked several other hides before this one and was hot/tired)..As soon as I worked him up into THAT clump of trees he went ballistic, bumped the source with his nose and spun into a sit (it was quite well hidden from my view!). But, he gets dinged for my failure. [This is the pup and he has ony been working unknowns for a few months now]

More importantly I will have to log now a plan to work more problems with lofting with him and follow up. I have enough tree problems with scent dropping early evening to know he will follow odor up a tree. Of course, it is one of our less frequent scenarios...I figure buried, covered and scattered are the most important. Also have notes to work on indicating a more quickly on buried problems as he wants to dig.

I would think any sensible person would see a training log - see an issue - and look for the issue to be fixed. If there are no issues in the logs, I would suspect someone who was good at creative writing.
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Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

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