Differing opinion on the Bite.

[Dr. Teeth]

I have a K9/ protection training background. I guess its what is considered old school. My theory on "the bite" is that I want a hard full bite on the first lunge. If he achieves this he should be able to win a submission, and win the battle.

I have a training partner who is new school/schutzhund and wants to teach regrip after the initial bite. This seems to promote mouthy biting in my opinion, for no particularly beneficial reason. Instead of a get right on the first try scenario.

In my past training it was never a bad thing if the dog needed to regrip, however a first hit, solid bite was clearly preferred and promoted.

Am I missing something in this debate?

[Castlemaid]

The regrip is to teach a full, deep bite. The dog does not win (tug/sleeve/bite pillow), unless the bite is full and hard. If the bite is iffy, then you wait for the regrip and allow the dog to win right away. The dog then learns to bite deep and hard the first time, in order to win.

I think that if you have a dog with a naturally deep, hard bite, then there is no need to do a regrip, as you mentioned, might only teach the dog to get chewy.

I think for real-life law enforcement there is no real need to teach a perfect full grip - in Schutzhund, points are deducted if the bite is not 100% full, but in real life, the dog can certainly bite with power and strenght, even if a bit of the back teeth are still showing.

I think you should ask your training partner why he is doing regrips, and what the training goals are. He might be doing it because that is how he has been taught to work the dogs, or because he knows that he can get better, more consistent bites out of the dogs by working them this way.

[Chris Wild]

There is no school of thought, new or SchH or anything else, that doesn't prefer a full, hard bite on the initial strike or that would intentionally teach a dog not to do that when possible and favor a dog taking a weaker, frontal bite and then regriping.

No matter how good the dog though, circumstances don't always allow for a perfect bite on the first try, in which case teaching the dog to counter to a fuller bite is preferable than the dog keeping a less than full bite.

I can't fathom why anyone would want to teach a dog to regrip when the first grip is correct. If this seems to be the case with the other trainer, I'd have to guess that either perhaps you're misinterpreting what he is doing, or he seriously misinterpreted someone he learned from in the past.

[ladylaw203]

We do want a full grip with a patrol dog. Don't want him to typewriter the guy. Creates more damage than a full deep grip and hold

[Dr. Teeth]

Good feedback, thanks.

[DFrost]

Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth

I have a K9/ protection training background. I guess its what is considered old school. My theory on "the bite" is that I want a hard full bite on the first lunge. If he achieves this he should be able to win a submission, and win the battle.

I have a training partner who is new school/schutzhund and wants to teach regrip after the initial bite. This seems to promote mouthy biting in my opinion, for no particularly beneficial reason. Instead of a get right on the first try scenario.

In my past training it was never a bad thing if the dog needed to regrip, however a first hit, solid bite was clearly preferred and promoted.

Am I missing something in this debate?

While it's true some are intimidated by the mere presence of a dog, and some are immediately deterred by a bite, there are some that the only thing a bite does is distract them or slow them down. From a law enforcement perspective, that's ok with me. It gives the officer an edge. I think far too many people believe the dog is going to absolutely stop a person, just by biting them. Sometimes, depending on the person being bitten, the dog can be knocked off, or gets a shallow bite and it's instinctive in a good dog, in fight drive to return and get a better bite. Not every encounter goes as well as it does in training. Sometimes, in real situations, the subject is trying desperately to injure the dog, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they just make the dog work harder.

DFrost