Differing opinion on the Bite. - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-25-2012, 10:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 68
Default Differing opinion on the Bite.

I have a K9/ protection training background. I guess its what is considered old school. My theory on "the bite" is that I want a hard full bite on the first lunge. If he achieves this he should be able to win a submission, and win the battle.

I have a training partner who is new school/schutzhund and wants to teach regrip after the initial bite. This seems to promote mouthy biting in my opinion, for no particularly beneficial reason. Instead of a get right on the first try scenario.

In my past training it was never a bad thing if the dog needed to regrip, however a first hit, solid bite was clearly preferred and promoted.

Am I missing something in this debate?
Dr. Teeth is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-25-2012, 11:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
The Administrator from the Great White North, eh?
 
Castlemaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern British Columbia
Posts: 13,587
Default

The regrip is to teach a full, deep bite. The dog does not win (tug/sleeve/bite pillow), unless the bite is full and hard. If the bite is iffy, then you wait for the regrip and allow the dog to win right away. The dog then learns to bite deep and hard the first time, in order to win.

I think that if you have a dog with a naturally deep, hard bite, then there is no need to do a regrip, as you mentioned, might only teach the dog to get chewy.

I think for real-life law enforcement there is no real need to teach a perfect full grip - in Schutzhund, points are deducted if the bite is not 100% full, but in real life, the dog can certainly bite with power and strenght, even if a bit of the back teeth are still showing.

I think you should ask your training partner why he is doing regrips, and what the training goals are. He might be doing it because that is how he has been taught to work the dogs, or because he knows that he can get better, more consistent bites out of the dogs by working them this way.
__________________
Lucia

Keeta BH, OB1, TR1, AD
Rottweiler/Hairy Dog mix?? Shelter rescue
Gryffon Vom Wildhaus BH
Castlemaid is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 01:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
 
Chris Wild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 13,559
Default

There is no school of thought, new or SchH or anything else, that doesn't prefer a full, hard bite on the initial strike or that would intentionally teach a dog not to do that when possible and favor a dog taking a weaker, frontal bite and then regriping.

No matter how good the dog though, circumstances don't always allow for a perfect bite on the first try, in which case teaching the dog to counter to a fuller bite is preferable than the dog keeping a less than full bite.

I can't fathom why anyone would want to teach a dog to regrip when the first grip is correct. If this seems to be the case with the other trainer, I'd have to guess that either perhaps you're misinterpreting what he is doing, or he seriously misinterpreted someone he learned from in the past.
__________________
Wildhaus Kennels
Chris Wild is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 02:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
Moderator
 
ladylaw203's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 4,974
Default

We do want a full grip with a patrol dog. Don't want him to typewriter the guy. Creates more damage than a full deep grip and hold
__________________
Renee Utley
Port Authority Police,Sgt.
KaroSkocickaSamotaZM,ZOP,ZPU,FPR,FPR,ZVV1,ZZZ,ZZP, RHE,ZM TART, IRO titled SAR dog
www.nndda.org, Certifying official all fields
www.k9trainingcenters.com
ladylaw203 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2012, 11:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Denver
Posts: 68
Default

Good feedback, thanks.
Dr. Teeth is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tn
Posts: 880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth View Post
I have a K9/ protection training background. I guess its what is considered old school. My theory on "the bite" is that I want a hard full bite on the first lunge. If he achieves this he should be able to win a submission, and win the battle.

I have a training partner who is new school/schutzhund and wants to teach regrip after the initial bite. This seems to promote mouthy biting in my opinion, for no particularly beneficial reason. Instead of a get right on the first try scenario.

In my past training it was never a bad thing if the dog needed to regrip, however a first hit, solid bite was clearly preferred and promoted.

Am I missing something in this debate?
While it's true some are intimidated by the mere presence of a dog, and some are immediately deterred by a bite, there are some that the only thing a bite does is distract them or slow them down. From a law enforcement perspective, that's ok with me. It gives the officer an edge. I think far too many people believe the dog is going to absolutely stop a person, just by biting them. Sometimes, depending on the person being bitten, the dog can be knocked off, or gets a shallow bite and it's instinctive in a good dog, in fight drive to return and get a better bite. Not every encounter goes as well as it does in training. Sometimes, in real situations, the subject is trying desperately to injure the dog, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they just make the dog work harder.

DFrost
__________________
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.

DFrost
DFrost is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com