Can anyone tell me...

[GatorDog]

She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix.

I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...

[Piper'sgrl]

Originally Posted by Typhoon

Well, okay. But did he mean the sister, or the dog?

Because to me, the sire looks simply like a long coat black and tan. He definitely does not look like a sable to me. And that's not too typical of the working European working lines I'm accustomed to seeing. His build doesn't look much like a typical working line dog either.

I do know from taking pictures of Ranger (who is much redder in most light than he appears in any pictures I've posted of him here) that GSD red is hard to capture, and that your images look at least somewhat manipulated and the ones of the sire and dam don't...so maybe the sire is redder than he appears and is more or less the same color as her.

But even if so, he's not a sable, and since she is, I kind of doubt she got her coloring from him.

So my take is she's a very pretty dog, and almost all from pet line stock.

The sister claims she got the dog from Europe and I never once said Pipers dad was a sable, I said her mom was. Dad is blk/red. Piper has a very red pigment..since those pics I have of her dad are crap from the owner i can't help you there although he WAS a red not a tan.

Originally Posted by carmspack

she doesn't really have any lines so to say , because there wasn't really any intention in her breeding, no more than in the accidental breeding that took place .

"Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old" question is WHY when you knew nothing about the female that you have ??? No background history for health , hip and elbow production, longevity, siezures , DM , and on and on .
AND why buy a female with deliberate intentions to breed her two years down the line when you think her mother is nothing special "Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit"

When I bought her no, I wasnt going to breed her, never had the intention. Did it happen earlier than i wanted and was I upset of course. Will they be hip and elbow cert no. But if she was 2 like was planned bopth her and the dad would have been tested at 1 and a half yrs old but it didnt work out that way.

Your Dad approved ? -- " My dad (who is a DVM and has had his own small animal clinic Kitchener, Ontario " -- ??

Did my dad approve she got pregnant early not really,but he also knew her getting pregnant early was a possibility. did he have thoughts on my wanting to breed her eventually. Yes of course, did he give me his advice..of course he would, hes my vet.

"My bfs dog is from one of his parents litter of gsd pups that they have been breeding for 25 yrs" ---- and who knows how good they are - but they are purebred so that is $$$ value .

I didnt breed her to make any type of money since i know you certaintly dont make much if any money.

I don't agree that she is working / show line cross . She may not even be the progeny of the two dogs suspected - well okay , mother is known -- the old rhyme
Mother-Baby , Father?-Maybe! . I would have a DNA done .
I do agree "And they both look pretty definitively like American pet line dogs to me"

She is the litter of the two dogs suspected. I find you quite rude and all because you have a screen for protection. Thanks for you input but This thread is NOT about her having a litter early which yes was unfortunate but no she isn' ruined and is very happy and healthy. Her pups are healthy and to be honest I dont want to talk about the early litter thing anymore. I get it how you see it, trust me.

Originally Posted by GatorDog

She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix.

I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...

Mistakes happen but you know what, I'm just happy that she is fine and healthy and her pups are too. They will be beautiful pups because two beautiful well tempered dogs were bred. I want to discuss what people think she has in her and I've gotten enough info..This thread is going off topic about the litter thing and I didnt start a thread about what you guys think of my dog having pups too early did i? No.

[Piper'sgrl]

Originally Posted by Typhoon

Well, okay. But did he mean the sister, or the dog?

Because to me, the sire looks simply like a long coat black and tan. He definitely does not look like a sable to me. And that's not too typical of the working European working lines I'm accustomed to seeing. His build doesn't look much like a typical working line dog either.

I do know from taking pictures of Ranger (who is much redder in most light than he appears in any pictures I've posted of him here) that GSD red is hard to capture, and that your images look at least somewhat manipulated and the ones of the sire and dam don't...so maybe the sire is redder than he appears and is more or less the same color as her.

But even if so, he's not a sable, and since she is, I kind of doubt she got her coloring from him.

So my take is she's a very pretty dog, and almost all from pet line stock.

Originally Posted by carmspack

she doesn't really have any lines so to say , because there wasn't really any intention in her breeding, no more than in the accidental breeding that took place .

"Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old" question is WHY when you knew nothing about the female that you have ??? No background history for health , hip and elbow production, longevity, siezures , DM , and on and on .
AND why buy a female with deliberate intentions to breed her two years down the line when you think her mother is nothing special "Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit"

Your Dad approved ? -- " My dad (who is a DVM and has had his own small animal clinic Kitchener, Ontario " -- ??

"My bfs dog is from one of his parents litter of gsd pups that they have been breeding for 25 yrs" ---- and who knows how good they are - but they are purebred so that is $$$ value .

I didnt breed her to make any type of money since i know you certaintly dont make much if any money.

I don't agree that she is working / show line cross . She may not even be the progeny of the two dogs suspected - well okay , mother is known -- the old rhyme
Mother-Baby , Father?-Maybe! . I would have a DNA done .
I do agree "And they both look pretty definitively like American pet line dogs to me"

She is the litter of the two dogs suspected. I find you quite rude and all because you have a screen for protection. Thanks for you input but This thread is NOT about her having a litter early which yes was unfortunate but no she isn' ruined and is very happy and healthy. Her pups are healthy and to be honest I dont want to talk about the early litter thing anymore. I get it how you see it, trust me.

Originally Posted by GatorDog

She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix.

I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...

The sister claims she got the dog from Europe and I never once said Pipers dad was a sable, I said her mom was. Dad is blk/red. Piper has a very red pigment..since those pics I have of her dad are crap from the owner i can't help you there although he WAS a red not a tan.



When I bought her no, I wasnt going to breed her, never had the intention. Did it happen earlier than i wanted and was I upset of course. Will they be hip and elbow cert no. But if she was 2 like was planned bopth her and the dad would have been tested at 1 and a half yrs old but it didnt work out that way.

Did my dad approve she got pregnant early not really,but he also knew her getting pregnant early was a possibility. did he have thoughts on my wanting to breed her eventually. Yes of course, did he give me his advice..of course he would, hes my vet. I didnt breed her to make any type of money since i know you certaintly dont make much if any money.


Mistakes happen but you know what, I'm just happy that she is fine and healthy and her pups are too. They will be beautiful pups because two beautiful well tempered dogs were bred. I want to discuss what people think she has in her and I've gotten enough info..This thread is going off topic about the litter thing and I didnt start a thread about what you guys think of my dog having pups too early did i? No.

[GatorDog]

I don't think you will ever know what lines she is and I think you are probably only asking so you can tell puppy buyers something that sounds legitimate.

[Piper'sgrl]

I was actually asking out of wanting to try and learn more about my dog and more on the breed in general and wasn't even thinking of the buyers...

[Typhoon]

Well, the point is then that if the male did indeed come from Germany, he probably is a showline. There's just nothing about him that says working line at all. Confirmation-wise, he doesn't really look like a showline to me, either, but maybe it's the way he's standing.

But even if that's the case, what you've got then is a mix of WGSL --the sire-- and American pet lines --the dam-- not a mix of German working and show lines.

[carmspack]

Oh Gator dog I think you hit the nail on the head .

" I've always grown up with dogs but always labs. She isn't papered but papers dont mean much to me as I don't plan on showing. My girl who I've named Piper, is just over 3 months. She was born on January 15th" (2012)

So the pups are 3 weeks (plus some) as we speak . The dog is 11 months . Gestation is 2 months . She was bred when she was 9 months of age.



I said what I thought . I would say the same thing over the phone and in person. If someone , out of the blue , were to call me and ask , "say, I've found this litter and here is the background information , I'm thinking of maybe getting one of the pups and I want your opinion " guess what? nothing would change , I would say the same thing. It's integrity.

"I get it how you see it, trust me." here is how I see it . You bought a female and quoting you "
I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old. Unfortunately she got caught early by Zeus my bfs pure gsd. " Then on page 4 you contradict that statement with "When I bought her no, I wasnt going to breed her, never had the intention" and then you continue with the next sentence contradicting yourself - who was "never" going to breed with ". Did it happen earlier than i wanted and was I upset of course."

hey , at one time I was a reader of manuscripts before they were passed on for consideration for another read , possible publish -- I had to catch breaks in continuity -- so stuff like this glares.

"She's extremely laid back and I love it. She will play ball with you but never for very long before she gets bored of it. She lives to cuddle and go on long walks "

both Piper and Zeus hate the vaccuum " Piper hates it, so does Zeus..they both leave the room when I turn it on" so potentially the pups may have some noise/sound sensitivity.

Piper was the shy pup "It was my bf who got me to look at the shy girl in the back. A long coated sable pup female. The owners said first come first serve" , remember this
What attracted you to the GSD as a breed??

and - "Well than I'm sure one of her parents was sable but neither looked it to me." doubts about her being purebred
"I'm really excited to see the changes that she goes through! I got some pics of pipers parents. I must admit I wasn't impressed with the look of mom but dad was gorgeous. The pics are not that great but gives you an idea perhaps. The one pic the guy sent me of mom she's wet so I asked for one when she's dry but ill put up the ones I have of them. So dad is the blk and tan and mom is the light tan, I suppose she might be the "sable" one lol and then the one of the two of them together. Don't mind the hound in the middle.
Last edited by Piper'sgrl; 08-20-2012 at 09:51 AM.

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05-08-2012, 05:54 PM #23 (permalink) JakodaCD OA
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Location: Old Lyme, CT USA
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a really gorgeous puppy,,but, I don't see sable in either parents? Is that mom in the 3rd picture? and again in the last picture (far right?) In the 3rd pic I , she looks like a mix, but may be cause she is wet? The last pic she looks like a purebred but I don't see sable in her at all.

Could mom have gotten hooked up with another male possibly???

what else can I say but OMG , OMG " would never be able to shoot my dog and don't really think its right. For me too many emotions and love for my animals for it to ever feel right shooting an animal. But my bfs parents have raised n bred Shepherds for over 25 yrs and his dad has shot all of their dogs when the time comes. He says he will never let a vet do the job. As he says, a bullet is a lot less expensive... "

here is Zeus , the sire of the baby pups He looks pretty much the same age as the young Piper . I would speculate 3 or 4 months difference. He does not look like breeding material !



this is the history of your pups --

[DharmasMom]

Well congratulations! You are a backyard breeder. That is always something to aspire too.

[JakodaCD OA]

I do not believe mom is a sable either , actually far from it. Dad, still looks to me be a long haired black/tan.

I can't fathom a guess on 'lines', but if I had to, I also would say american/canadian pet lines. All gsd's originate from germany/europe/ whatever, but it can be so far back in a pedigree that it's 'lost' on what's actually there.

You may have two temperamentally good dogs that got hooked up, but how healthy are they in the long run? Hips/elbows?? Are you going to give your new puppy owners a health guarantee? Are you going to INSIST they spay/neuter them?? If not, I would.

Accidents happen, but a vet tech who's dad is a vet, should really know better about heat cycles, keeping females intact away from intact males and not even thinking about breeding dogs with no papers/no knowledge of background.

In the end, I'd be giving these puppies FREE to good homes, insist on spay/neuter, and I'd spay your female. Your just real lucky she came thru this ok at her age..

[ayoitzrimz]

Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA

I do not believe mom is a sable either , actually far from it. Dad, still looks to me be a long haired black/tan.

I can't fathom a guess on 'lines', but if I had to, I also would say american/canadian pet lines. All gsd's originate from germany/europe/ whatever, but it can be so far back in a pedigree that it's 'lost' on what's actually there.

You may have two temperamentally good dogs that got hooked up, but how healthy are they in the long run? Hips/elbows?? Are you going to give your new puppy owners a health guarantee? Are you going to INSIST they spay/neuter them?? If not, I would.

Accidents happen, but a vet tech who's dad is a vet, should really know better about heat cycles, keeping females intact away from intact males and not even thinking about breeding dogs with no papers/no knowledge of background.

In the end, I'd be giving these puppies FREE to good homes, insist on spay/neuter, and I'd spay your female. Your just real lucky she came thru this ok at her age..

That is the best advice I've heard on this thread. Sorry to hear about the dog, but accidents (and accident breeding) do happen. It's a shame, people are still chasing $$$ instead of leaving the breeding to the professionals.

I would spay the female though - breeding her is equivalent to breeding a mixed breed, except mixed breeds are hardier without papers, information on the parents, health testing, temperament testing, etc etc there's really not much there in terms of bettering the breed or even predicting what the offspring might be like...