It's a hard life for Amaretto

[Hillary_Plog]

Hey Marshies...just a couple things...

1. The reason she seems a bit disinterested in playing tug is that she is teething RIGHT now. Absolut's teeth are falling out of his head in multiples right now. DO NOT do a lot of tugging, as it probably hurts, and you don't want her associating her toy or the act of playing tug with pain.

2. This litter is VERY, VERY vocal. There are times when it is appropriate and times when it is not. For instance, it is NOT appropriate to bark at another dog on the street, even if it is to play or out of curiosity. It IS okay, perhaps, to bark at the door when she needs to go out or when she is playing/wrestling with another dog friend. You will want to work on a "quiet" or a "watch me" command. Maybe your trainer can help you with that.

Absolut is VERY social and loves to play and will bark out of frustration and/or to initiate play. This is NOT okay with me, so I reward him for showing interest but not barking by treating/praising him right when he is quiet, and attaching the word quiet to it. This is difficult because you have to know what his/her threshold is. When he does bark, I either remove him so that he understands he gets taken away from the fun when he barks, or I give him a verbal correction and redirect and praise/treat for the quiet. Wash, rinse, repeat...about a HUNDRED times.

3. I DO NOT like gentle leaders...and will NEVER use one, but this is just my opinion. When I see/hear of people using them, I always get reports that the dog is frustrated, confused, biting the leash, bucking, barking, shaking their head, pulling back, etc. This is probably why she had rubbed the skin off of her face. How gentle is this? And, FYI, you should never give corrections with gentle leaders. It will/can make your dog head shy and can cause other issues.

Does your obedience instructor insist you use one? It is my philosophy, especially when I am teaching group obedience, that there is not ONE single tool, piece of equipment, or method that works on every dog.

If you don't want to use a pinch collar for when you walk her, perhaps a non-pull harness might work better?

Just a couple suggestions since we haven't had a chance to talk.

[marshies]

Originally Posted by Hillary_Plog

Hey Marshies...just a couple things...

1. The reason she seems a bit disinterested in playing tug is that she is teething RIGHT now. Absolut's teeth are falling out of his head in multiples right now. DO NOT do a lot of tugging, as it probably hurts, and you don't want her associating her toy or the act of playing tug with pain.

2. This litter is VERY, VERY vocal. There are times when it is appropriate and times when it is not. For instance, it is NOT appropriate to bark at another dog on the street, even if it is to play or out of curiosity. It IS okay, perhaps, to bark at the door when she needs to go out or when she is playing/wrestling with another dog friend. You will want to work on a "quiet" or a "watch me" command. Maybe your trainer can help you with that.

Absolut is VERY social and loves to play and will bark out of frustration and/or to initiate play. This is NOT okay with me, so I reward him for showing interest but not barking by treating/praising him right when he is quiet, and attaching the word quiet to it. This is difficult because you have to know what his/her threshold is. When he does bark, I either remove him so that he understands he gets taken away from the fun when he barks, or I give him a verbal correction and redirect and praise/treat for the quiet. Wash, rinse, repeat...about a HUNDRED times.

3. I DO NOT like gentle leaders...and will NEVER use one, but this is just my opinion. When I see/hear of people using them, I always get reports that the dog is frustrated, confused, biting the leash, bucking, barking, shaking their head, pulling back, etc. This is probably why she had rubbed the skin off of her face. How gentle is this? And, FYI, you should never give corrections with gentle leaders. It will/can make your dog head shy and can cause other issues.

Does your obedience instructor insist you use one? It is my philosophy, especially when I am teaching group obedience, that there is not ONE single tool, piece of equipment, or method that works on every dog.

If you don't want to use a pinch collar for when you walk her, perhaps a non-pull harness might work better?

Just a couple suggestions since we haven't had a chance to talk.

Hi Hilary,

THANK YOU SO MUCH for responding. Again, I'm sorry about the calling. I FINALLY got the call card and left a message for you yesterday. Maybe we can chat some time soon.

1. Thank you! You're probably very right. I have been keeping the tug rope at home. Today I only played tug with her when she was already tugging very hard at my pantlegs and shaking them...I figured she needed a better outlet than me. She lost a tooth today as well!! I woke up this morning to the sound of beads dropping on plastic, and I panicked briefly thinking, oh no, she must've splintered the bone she has in her crate into a billion little pieces. When I opened her crate up, it was just her tooth!

2. Do you think Absolut and Amaretto are experiencing the same thing? I think some earlier experiences of other dogs barking at her may have scarred her a little. When she SEES other dogs and just so much as LOOKS at them, she barks. There is no fixation then bark. It's just see, and bark. I've tried the watch-me, and have tried sit. She knows these 2 behaviors perfectly in other settings, but she is completely oblivious to me when she is barking at another dog. I can generally call her off barking at other things. My trainer has seen her do this, and the suggestion was to remove her focus with a gentle leader since she wasn't focusing on me in any other way (does not take food, does not want toy), and then redirect the behavior. Do you agree with this approach?

3. I may have written my earlier post to convey a wrong message about how I'm using the gentle leader. What I meant to say was to redirect her focus up and then engage her in another way. I don't want to correct with a gentle leader. I just want her to focus on me instead. I was hesitant to use one at first because of what I heard here. It has definitely helped her focus on me when there is another dog. I think my operational and fitting error are the main causes of her injury.

I am not averse to choke chain, I just didn't know how to use and fit one properly. My trainer said give Amaretto a few weeks on purely positive first, and then if it doesn't go still, we'll try the choke chain. I am thinking of asking her to help fit me one next Monday. I don't mind the pulling so much because there's lots of time down the road to train that. I want to correct the leg biting...I wear jeans under sweatpants, and today there was still a bloody hole where flesh used to be.

Again Hilary, thank you SO much for responding to my post. It means the world to me, especially since you can provide examples with Absolut. It gives me So much reassurance.

[qbchottu]

I agree with Hillary about the gentle leader. I was never a fan of those. I've gotten great results with using the prong(pinch) on Whiskey. Whiskey is a fairly hard dog and never paid any attention to me before the pinch. When he is very excited, normal collars are going to be completely useless on him. Consistent obedience combined with proper use of the pinch got results in a very short amount of time. You would have laughed your butt off at our first couple of obedience lessons. He used to body slam me and bite my forearms with his full mouth when I tried to get him to down! Now he can sit in a 20 minute down no problem. He knows if his butt gets off the ground, I will bring down the fury of Thor upon him Eventually as you raise the dog, set limits, and establish order, your dog comes to respect you as a leader and is more capable of listening to your commands. It just takes time. A GSD is by no means an easy breed to handle and you are very brave to take one on as your first. I commend you on your progress and don't be so hard on yourself/Amaretto. A year from now, you'll be laughing and wondering what you were so worried about

Just be cautious that your dog is not too handler soft. For example, if I ever used the pinch on Wiva, she would belly crawl and p**s herself because she is a very soft dog. All I need with her is a standard fur saver on a dead link and a firm tug for a correction. Anything more and I would ruin her. If your dog needs greater containment, I don't see any problem with moving up to a pinch. She is still young so maybe wait on that for a couple months. Just don't get a choke. Many high drive dogs will seriously harm themselves choking out on the choke chain. For fitting your prong, make sure it sits a little behind the ears and high on the neck. Give a quick, sharp tug and release. If done right, Whiskey usually gives a sharp bark or small yelp. It can make you feel bad, but the behavior won't get repeated again. My trainer repeats this constantly: one good correction is worth a thousand bad ones. Meaning that if you don't give a good hard correction that stops the behavior from happening again, the dog learns to push past the inadequate correction and you slowly create a tough dog impervious to corrections (at least in my experience). We had a lady give her male a dozen bad corrections on the prong. Now that dog has to be on an E-collar because he has no response to a pinch. A low pinch collar is useless. Leeberg has a great tutorial on using a prong.

Also with the barking, continue redirecting and I think it'll pass in a few months time. Eventually (if you keep redirecting), I think she'll get the idea and knock it off. It can be embarrassing to have her bark or misbehave in public, but just keep working on it. It'll get better!

For the teething:
-soak a rag in water, put a few knots in it, freeze it and give it to her to chew on. This works better when you soak the rag in chicken broth. Just be sure to get low sodium.
-frozen carrots are great
-I used to massage the gums. They loved it and helps alleviate some pain. Added bonus is that they don't care at all when I stick my fingers in their mouths
-ice cubes

The leg biting will be another thing that she will grow out of with continued reinforcement. My rescue used to herd, snarl and nip at anything that moved. She thought herding screaming kids was the best game in the world After teething ended, she knocked it off.

[Hillary_Plog]

Marshies...sorry, I was teaching obedience classes till 9pm last night, got home and went straight to bed. I didn't even look at my phone!

1. Absolut has never had any bad experiences with dogs. He is very social and wants to play, and when this is not an option for him, he will bark and whine out of frustration or play initiation.

I think that as humans, we try to attach some sort of meaning to why our dogs "do what they do"....try not to focus so much on why Amaretto barks (quite simply, she is a dog and that's what they do), and focus more on finding a way to be more motivating than the dog she is interested in.

If worse comes to worse, just keep walking and don't say a word to her. If you focus as much on the other dog and make it a huge deal, then she will focus even harder. She is looking to YOU for leadership...she needs YOU to show her how to act...it is OUR job to show our dogs what we expect.

2. I DO NOT recommend that you use a pinch collar for corrections. The corrections, if she needs one and/or it is appropriate, come later after she has matured and has gone through training and knows what you expect of her. The pinch collar should be used, if you so choose, for walking so that she doesn't pull. She will correct herself when she tries to pull. This will give you a bit more control over her when you are walking and, for instance, she tries to pull towards another dog or person.

DON'T use a choke collar/chain.

If you are happy with the Gentle Leader, then by all means, keep using it. If you are going to use a pinch collar, read qbchottu's link from the Leerburg website or work with a knowledgeable trainer so they can fit it properly and show you how to use it appropriately.

[robinhuerta]

Marshies....
Amaretto is being a 5mo old, energetic, thinking puppy...that has become an "only" child. (spoiled)...but not because of lack of *want* by you, simply because of *real know how*.
I will disagree (slightly) with Hillary right now.....sorry Hillary, ya know I love ya!
IF a choke collar or pinch collar will give you the opportunity to give a "real" correction when Amaretto is biting you....then use one. It is just another tool, that can be used.
BUT...it MUST be fitted properly and not abused....it MUST be used appropriately.
Biting, barking and many behaviors are completely normal for her breed and age.....
Behavior and training are two separate issues.
Behavior is whats *expected* from our dogs....it is not requested...it is matter of fact and black & white.
Training is what we *teach* our dogs to do...and there is reward given for a job well done.
Use the same mindset as you would do with children......your child is *expected* to "behave" a certain way and "respect you"..........Your child is then *taught* things by "schooling", and their grades reflect their "reward".
JMO

[marshies]

Originally Posted by robinhuerta

Marshies....
Amaretto is being a 5mo old, energetic, thinking puppy...that has become an "only" child. (spoiled)...but not because of lack of *want* by you, simply because of *real know how*.
I will disagree (slightly) with Hillary right now.....sorry Hillary, ya know I love ya!
IF a choke collar or pinch collar will give you the opportunity to give a "real" correction when Amaretto is biting you....then use one. It is just another tool, that can be used.
BUT...it MUST be fitted properly and not abused....it MUST be used appropriately.
Biting, barking and many behaviors are completely normal for her breed and age.....
Behavior and training are two separate issues.
Behavior is whats *expected* from our dogs....it is not requested...it is matter of fact and black & white.
Training is what we *teach* our dogs to do...and there is reward given for a job well done.
Use the same mindset as you would do with children......your child is *expected* to "behave" a certain way and "respect you"..........Your child is then *taught* things by "schooling", and their grades reflect their "reward".
JMO

I am going to ask my trainer to help me fit a choke chain on Monday's class. She is better at home with mouthing my hands, but when we cross the street, sometimes she grabs my legs and it's REALLY dangerous for me to wait it out or pry her off or distract her in the middle of the road.

Originally Posted by Hillary_Plog

Marshies...sorry, I was teaching obedience classes till 9pm last night, got home and went straight to bed. I didn't even look at my phone!

1. Absolut has never had any bad experiences with dogs. He is very social and wants to play, and when this is not an option for him, he will bark and whine out of frustration or play initiation.

I think that as humans, we try to attach some sort of meaning to why our dogs "do what they do"....try not to focus so much on why Amaretto barks (quite simply, she is a dog and that's what they do), and focus more on finding a way to be more motivating than the dog she is interested in.

If worse comes to worse, just keep walking and don't say a word to her. If you focus as much on the other dog and make it a huge deal, then she will focus even harder. She is looking to YOU for leadership...she needs YOU to show her how to act...it is OUR job to show our dogs what we expect.

2. I DO NOT recommend that you use a pinch collar for corrections. The corrections, if she needs one and/or it is appropriate, come later after she has matured and has gone through training and knows what you expect of her. The pinch collar should be used, if you so choose, for walking so that she doesn't pull. She will correct herself when she tries to pull. This will give you a bit more control over her when you are walking and, for instance, she tries to pull towards another dog or person.

DON'T use a choke collar/chain.

If you are happy with the Gentle Leader, then by all means, keep using it. If you are going to use a pinch collar, read qbchottu's link from the Leerburg website or work with a knowledgeable trainer so they can fit it properly and show you how to use it appropriately.

Thank you for the response Hilary. I stopped using gentle leader this week to let Amaretto heal up the redness.

I've been going to a dog park and staying around the fences with Amaretto so she can look at other dogs and be rewarded. If she barks, I move away. She is really good at not barking if the dogs have been there for a while. She can even do some obedience with me pretty close to the fence. But when we see a new dog walk around, she barks again. Do you think what I'm doing is right?

You are right about wanting to play with them. When she sees other dogs playing and she clearly cannot go, she makes the SADDEST little whimper. I almost gave in and went inside. T__T

Originally Posted by qbchottu

I agree with Hillary about the gentle leader. I was never a fan of those. I've gotten great results with using the prong(pinch) on Whiskey. Whiskey is a fairly hard dog and never paid any attention to me before the pinch. When he is very excited, normal collars are going to be completely useless on him. Consistent obedience combined with proper use of the pinch got results in a very short amount of time. You would have laughed your butt off at our first couple of obedience lessons. He used to body slam me and bite my forearms with his full mouth when I tried to get him to down! Now he can sit in a 20 minute down no problem. He knows if his butt gets off the ground, I will bring down the fury of Thor upon him Eventually as you raise the dog, set limits, and establish order, your dog comes to respect you as a leader and is more capable of listening to your commands. It just takes time. A GSD is by no means an easy breed to handle and you are very brave to take one on as your first. I commend you on your progress and don't be so hard on yourself/Amaretto. A year from now, you'll be laughing and wondering what you were so worried about

Just be cautious that your dog is not too handler soft. For example, if I ever used the pinch on Wiva, she would belly crawl and p**s herself because she is a very soft dog. All I need with her is a standard fur saver on a dead link and a firm tug for a correction. Anything more and I would ruin her. If your dog needs greater containment, I don't see any problem with moving up to a pinch. She is still young so maybe wait on that for a couple months. Just don't get a choke. Many high drive dogs will seriously harm themselves choking out on the choke chain. For fitting your prong, make sure it sits a little behind the ears and high on the neck. Give a quick, sharp tug and release. If done right, Whiskey usually gives a sharp bark or small yelp. It can make you feel bad, but the behavior won't get repeated again. My trainer repeats this constantly: one good correction is worth a thousand bad ones. Meaning that if you don't give a good hard correction that stops the behavior from happening again, the dog learns to push past the inadequate correction and you slowly create a tough dog impervious to corrections (at least in my experience). We had a lady give her male a dozen bad corrections on the prong. Now that dog has to be on an E-collar because he has no response to a pinch. A low pinch collar is useless. Leeberg has a great tutorial on using a prong.

Also with the barking, continue redirecting and I think it'll pass in a few months time. Eventually (if you keep redirecting), I think she'll get the idea and knock it off. It can be embarrassing to have her bark or misbehave in public, but just keep working on it. It'll get better!

For the teething:
-soak a rag in water, put a few knots in it, freeze it and give it to her to chew on. This works better when you soak the rag in chicken broth. Just be sure to get low sodium.
-frozen carrots are great
-I used to massage the gums. They loved it and helps alleviate some pain. Added bonus is that they don't care at all when I stick my fingers in their mouths
-ice cubes

The leg biting will be another thing that she will grow out of with continued reinforcement. My rescue used to herd, snarl and nip at anything that moved. She thought herding screaming kids was the best game in the world After teething ended, she knocked it off.

THANK you again for the GREAT advice.

I might get a choke chain this Monday if my breeder will help me fit it and teach me how to use it properly. I have no problems continuing redirecting while we are somewhere safe like in a park or in a parking lot, but one of her favourite places to bite and herd my legs is as we cross the street. :O It's SO dangerous! Numerous times I just dragged her along WITH my foot because the light was turning and there was a massive cue of cars. TELL me about embarassing. I actually HEARD someone in the car laughing at me.

I do the frozen carrots too! Great minds think alike!!!

[SitUbuSit]

Hi Marshies! Amaretto sounds like Batman after our night time walk and play. When he gets in, usually around 10pm, he has MAJOR ZOOMIES. And if I let him run around the house, he will lunge and bite at everything, even the air. He looks like a snapping turtle. That's when I put him in his night crate and turn out the lights. He is usually sleeping in minutes.

If you aren't comfortable with the pinch/choke, you may want to try a steel fursaver on a dead ring. It's more impactful than the buckle collar when they pull, but not as "corrective" as the pinch. Right now, Batty is still on the nylon buckle collar, but I will probably move to the fursaver on walks in a few weeks. He is already almost 50 lbs and quite powerful.

Batman started barking last week after 4 months of virtual silence. He is in the fear period, along with Amaretto, it seems. He barked at people doing things he doesn't like, like skateboarding, playing tennis, or being in a walker, as he did to an 80-year-old grandma in the mailroom. This was particularly embarrassing. He sometimes barks at dogs, but not often.

He even barked at me from his crate. He was protesting because I was in the kitchen making good-smelling food, and he wanted some. When he barked the first time I just started at him, I was so surprised. The next time, I closed the office doors (where his crate is) and blocked his view of the kitchen. He stopped barking, so I opened the doors. He has not barked at me since.

On walks, his barking has almost stopped because I'm getting better at telling what might set him off. Constant vigilance. When I note something bark-worthy approaching or see his body language gear up towards a target, I quickly get in front of him, wave a treat under his nose, and make him do something for me. Sometimes I step on his leash and grab his collar and scruff/side neck fur and tell him "settle."

Sometimes I jump around in front of him and squeal like a disturbed child. Anything to get his attention.

Luckily, he is VERY food motivated, so the food for tricks thing usually works. Yesterday he barked at a skateboarder, and that was it. He didn't bark at any puppies in our first ever puppy class. So we went from barking at 8 different people per day to 1. Today he barked zero times.

Another thing I hear works is peanut butter. Put a spoon of PB on the roof of your dog's mouth, and instinctively she will want to close her mouth and stop barking. Then tell her "quiet" while she is sucking on the PB. This is best for indoor events like classes, or at home since it's not that handy to carry around a jar of PB everywhere.

Pets and kisses to Amaretto! She is very, very pretty.

[Jelpy]

Reading this thread the only thing that struck me was to be VERY CAREFUL of her tail while you are on the escalator. It would be all too easy for her tail to get tangled/stuck on the steps and she could end up being injured quite easily. WATCH THE TAIL.

Jelpy

[marshies]

Hi SitUbuSit!

I've been reading your blog for Batty! I am UNWORTHY! Was inspired by tennis court off-leash time and found one on campus to use.

In terms of reactivity, luckily, the only people Amaretto SOMETIMES barks at are joggers. But she barks at dogs 100% of the time. In class she only barks when they first walk in, and is settled for the rest of class. It is so embarassing when I'm walking her out on the street and Amaretto is going off her rocket while the other dog doesn't even so much as glance at her. But this too shall pass.

She isn't as food motivated as Batty, unfortunately. When I see another dog, I'll usually start having her do obedience things with me, simple commands like sit and watch. Sometimes it works, but sometimes the other dog gets closer, and she notices them and barks. When she starts barking, the only thing that works is walking away until she stops barking. I then pet her and treat her if she can look at the dog calmly. Are you using any other resources for reactivity? I'm thinking of trying Control Unleashed.

I don't feel uncomfortable using a choke chain, I just need to learn how to use and fit one. I don't get a good vibe from my trainer at puppy classes... She doesn't seem to like me or Amaretto very much. Can't wait to go back to Toronto, and join a different puppy class.

In terms of ankle-biting, the one consistent time I notice it is when we cross streets. 9 times out of 10 she will start noticing my feet moving and want to go for them. It is so dangerous trying to stop her/drag her/distract her in the middle of the road.


Jelpy, thanks for the advice about escalators.

[marshies]

Don't want to jinx it but...

It's been 2 days since she last nipped my legs as we are walking outside. She still goes for my crocs and feet when I'm in the home, but at least crossing the street is no longer a hazard!

YAY!