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-   -   Working dog or scam? NEED HELP NOW! (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/personal-protection-dogs/381466-working-dog-scam-need-help-now.html)

lawhyno 12-14-2013 08:22 PM

Working dog or scam? NEED HELP NOW!
 
I just purchased a 6-month male and the owner/trainer said the dog had high drives (which I want for protection work) and that he would make a great protection dog. At first glance, the dog seems great. He barks at strangers, protects his territory with high energy and appears to be bold.

After some socialization, I took him home. We hung out and bonded for a bit and I decided to test his prey drive and his bite. This is where I got confused and a bit paranoid… his bite is weak, he gives up the tug easily, he doesn't chase intensely, and he shows weak possession. This is unlike my previous -- and only other -- German Shepherd who was eager to tug and chase and held on for dear life.

So I'm a little confused. Is this something temporary? Is the dog maybe unfamiliar with me and feeling separation anxiety? Maybe he doesn't trust me enough to play with me yet? Should I return him and get my money back? Maybe I should be patient but for how long?

I had the impression that a dog with drive will chase anything under any circumstances. That's how my last dog was. Maybe this dog doesn't have it and I was scammed.

Can someone please give me insight. I need it bad right now.

onyx'girl 12-14-2013 08:25 PM

What line is this dog from? Where did you 'find' this dog? Reputable trainer/handler? 6 months is still young, but genetically should have good grips(teething is going on bigtime though, so I wouldn't expect the tugging to be strong). I think teething may be playing into this, but if you see other issues with confidence or stable nerves, then deciding to return may be worth checking into. Sad that these puppies are moved about. I'd think of the puppy's well-being first and formost.

lawhyno 12-14-2013 09:13 PM

Have any new handlers had this problem with their guaranteed dog?
 
I got him from a reputable trainer in my area. He promised to help me train this dog all the way through full protection dog, so he is very confident this dog can do the work.

His pedigree seems good. Father is a titled West German import and mother is a Czech titled dog. Could be teething I suppose… didn't think of that.

I've had one dog before who was a Czech import and she had insane amounts of drive so she set the bar pretty high. She was sharp, quick minded, and smart as a whip.

It could be separation anxiety because he seems out of it, in a daze. I don't know… I'm concerned.

Any other thoughts?

carmspack 12-14-2013 09:21 PM

He barks at strangers, protects his territory with high energy and appears to be bold.

But this in a 6 month old pup may be spazzy hyper activity and nerves?

lawhyno 12-14-2013 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmspack (Post 4671706)
He barks at strangers, protects his territory with high energy and appears to be bold.

But this in a 6 month old pup may be spazzy hyper activity and nerves?

They told me something along the lines of, "we build his temperament for protection since he is small puppy."

It seems appealing at first because he seems like a serious dog. He isn't afraid of strangers because he goes forward and barks when strangers walk towards him or enter his general space.

I don't mind this aspect of his behavior because I think that's great for protection work. What I'm concerned with is the fact that he doesn't seem excited about chasing a toy, biting the toy, and possessing the toy.

Does anyone have any input on that? Do high drive dogs ever have scenarios where they don't want to bite or show low drive behavior? My gut is telling me NO. But hopefully someone more experienced can give me a more reliable answer.

gsdsar 12-14-2013 11:38 PM

In a general sense, a low prey drive does not mean a low defense drive. 2 very different things.

Prey drive can be used in the beginning to build desire to engage. But it is not the only thing to look at in a personal protection dog.

My concern is that, very very very few dogs born are capable of handling a true defensive/protective state of mind at 6 mo old. So 99.99% of pups that are showing "protective" behavior at that age are not doing it out of " protection " but out of fear. It's insecurity that had been cultivated to " look good" for a potential buyer.

A good PPD is confident, social. Not trying to defend space from non threatening people. They have been we'll socialized so that they can tell the difference between a true threat and a drunk college kid. They are not overly sensitive to environment, they are calm and happy.


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bill 12-14-2013 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsdsar (Post 4672138)
In a general sense, a low prey drive does not mean a low defense drive. 2 very different things.

Prey drive can be used in the beginning to build desire to engage. But it is not the only thing to look at in a personal protection dog.

My concern is that, very very very few dogs born are capable of handling a true defensive/protective state of mind at 6 mo old. So 99.99% of pups that are showing "protective" behavior at that age are not doing it out of " protection " but out of fear. It's insecurity that had been cultivated to " look good" for a potential buyer.

A good PPD is confident, social. Not trying to defend space from non threatening people. They have been we'll socialized so that they can tell the difference between a true threat and a drunk college kid. They are not overly sensitive to environment, they are calm and happy.


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Very well said! A true PPD is safer than a untrained dog. Bill

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Jack's Dad 12-15-2013 12:06 AM

Quote:

A good PPD is confident, social. Not trying to defend space from non threatening people. They have been we'll socialized so that they can tell the difference between a true threat and a drunk college kid. They are not overly sensitive to environment, they are calm and happy.
A drunk college kid is a true threat.http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...xM_f3u022S.gif

Verivus 12-15-2013 01:21 AM

Quote:

A drunk college kid is a true threat.http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...xM_f3u022S.gif
:rofl::rofl:

** Oh looks like quotes are broken. (fixed it for you, ADMIN)

carmspack 12-15-2013 03:39 AM

"It's insecurity that had been cultivated to " look good" for a potential buyer. " plus all the other things that gsdsar said .
want to share the pedigree?

in the meantime take the pressure OFF the dog . If you are looking at him with a critical eye the dog will sense your displeasure with him. Let him have a normal life -- not constant challenge and under the microscope and testing from you , at this age especially. Integrate him into family. Show him the big SAFE normal world -- bond , establish trust , train with positive feedback and genuine appreciation.

You may make a good dog out of him yet !


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