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Old 02-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Since you mention biting, I guess you must want an attack dog. You probably shouldn't just order a Koehler book and start urging your dog to bite the guy in the trench coat. You might visit one of the schutzhund clubs (without the dog) and start learning how to train properly. Join the club, make friends and start asking the trainers how they started their pups. Training an attack dog is definitely not for the novice, that seems to me to be a recipe for disaster. If you join a club, you and the dog will learn together. You need to start by building a dog that is bold, confident, and unafraid yet obedient. I remember seeing a Leerburg ad with a photo of a pretty young puppy on a sleeve learning 'out'. Attack training is a game for the dog, they enjoy it and it isn't hard to teach. The thing is that once he learns to bite he goes from pet dog to loaded gun which is a big responsibility.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
If you have never protection trained a dog/pup, then let your pup grow up to 15 to 18 months old with plenty of socialization, then get your dog assessed by a highly regarded trainer to see if you have a good candidate. Starting puppies out with this should only be for the experienced so you can know what you are doing or creating. Good Luck.
I agree with Cliff (me being someone who probably started a dog too young with good intentions but made many mistakes).

Protection is not a game and is not something you desensitize a dog to.

Right now I would not worry, just work on building up your dog in general, building a bond, starting the obedience, doing stuff that brings out the best in your dog and lets your dog be confident.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Since you are in Michigan, I'd encourage you to contact Cheryl Carlson at Cher Car Kennels in St. Johns (Cher Car Kennels -Dog Breeding & Training Experts since 1977) and see what she says. She has many, many years of experience with this type of training. Lots of info on her background in training is available on her website. She is extremely approachable and easy to speak to. I got my dog from her and I am currently doing PP training with her.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
If you have never protection trained a dog/pup, then let your pup grow up to 15 to 18 months old with plenty of socialization, then get your dog assessed by a highly regarded trainer to see if you have a good candidate. Starting puppies out with this should only be for the experienced so you can know what you are doing or creating. Good Luck.
This is exactly what I did, except mine was about 10 months old at the time of her evaluation. They told me that 10 months was a good age. She really hasn't changed much since then and she is now a year and half.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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We try to expose puppies to everything as young pups: distractions, bitework on a puppy flirt pole, and soft rags, graduating to soft puppy leather.

Some can start a bit earlier, or later, depending on the pup. We have one pup we are going to do Ring with, that has been on a leg sleeve, and suit since a very young age.

We do little to no obedience, other than shaping some behaviors with food at a young age. We subscribe to the "build the engine before you install the brakes" mentality.

We also socialize, and do a lot of environmental exposure from a young age.

Depending on the pup, and what it is destined for, we may also start tracking them young also.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Of course Tim, you and I and some others can pretty much look at a dog and know 1) that the perspective dog has it, 2) where, what and how to start early.....I kind of got idea that many people that want to do protection training often do not have the genetics to do this type of work and especially if they fuddle it up early.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
Of course Tim, you and I and some others can pretty much look at a dog and know 1) that the perspective dog has it, 2) where, what and how to start early.....I kind of got idea that many people that want to do protection training often do not have the genetics to do this type of work and especially if they fuddle it up early.
That is true, Sir.

Then the next problem is that they may not know any better, and next thing you know, someone unscrupulous is stringing them along telling them otherwise...
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I will say that I am pretty much doing things your way as you described, am taking a different approach recently to introducing the sleeve until the dog is able to work suit and sleeve at same time.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I will say that I am pretty much doing things your way as you described, am taking a different approach recently to introducing the sleeve until the dog is able to work suit and sleeve at same time.

Is your methodology to break the equipment/man orientation by introducing them together, or to build them until sufficiently strong for suit before you graduate from tug/bite builder level stuff? Or is there another reason?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I started with mine right from the start as well, beginning with fun games of tug, where he would always win. I would be careful though, some dogs' genetics won't allow them to do this kind of work. Either they don't have the drive/energy or they are very timid. As long as you start early with socialization and build tug-drive, you should be fine. Good luck!
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