"Real" Protection Dogs

[Tim Connell]

I sometimes get requests from people looking for a "protection dog" that run the gamut from a dog that will alert to the presence of a stranger, or to alert on command, or to bite on command...and further yet: dogs that will engage in a realistic situation.

As some discussion starters:

What do you feel a dog should be capable of to be considered a "Real" protection dog? Sleeve? Suit? Hidden sleeve? Muzzle work?

What kind of scenario based training do you engage in to fit your lifestyle?

[cliffson1]

I think it's important to define the mission of the dog in determining the extent of the training. For a dog that has an expectation of real engagement and sustained tactical use....then all of the training with aforementioned equipment should be instituted. Strong work in different places and different surfaces should also be trained. Defense of vehicle, buildings, and handler should also be incorporated, IMO.

[Tim Connell]

Originally Posted by cliffson1

I think it's important to define the mission of the dog in determining the extent of the training. For a dog that has an expectation of real engagement and sustained tactical use....then all of the training with aforementioned equipment should be instituted. Strong work in different places and different surfaces should also be trained. Defense of vehicle, buildings, and handler should also be incorporated, IMO.

Indeed. I agree wholeheartedly.

That's the difference between a "Protection Dog" and a "Deterrent Dog", in my mind.

[Gretchen]

Is this discussion for police dogs, personal/private use or both?

I like what cliffson1 wrote about training in different places and different circumstances. Our 1st trainer had protection classes. I often wondered if those dogs in the classes would only perform at the facility.

Our 2nd trainer has trained dogs to fiercely bark on command, definitely looks very scary, and a good deterrent. The dogs were on leash so this type of protection work could be done in a variety of situations.

I personally would not want my own dog to be trained to actually bite as part of protection work. I've seen a local K9 officer go through a drill with the ESU and he warned the officers that sometimes K9s might bite an officer in all the excitement of pursuing someone and advised the officers to relax and not over-react if bit. So I would not want to take that chance with my personal dog.

[onyx'girl]

I really like KNPV style training. If I were to train a PPD, I'd go with those methods. I like the search and guarding exercises. Everything is done off leash so obedience is very important as well.

[Tim Connell]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I really like KNPV style training. If I were to train a PPD, I'd go with those methods. I like the search and guarding exercises. Everything is done off leash so obedience is very important as well.

If you like GSD's that do KNPV : Watch for the solid black GSD...he is a PH2, this is from the 2010 Championships. I think he was third. (Dodge Kiradesja)

KNPV 2010 Eindhoven Deel 2.mov - YouTube

KNPV 2010 Eindhoven Deel 2.mov - YouTube

My friend in France just bred to him, and coincidentally, the puppies are being born, as we speak.

[onyx'girl]

thanks for sharing the video! I was at a seminar with some Dutch LEO and trainers and they aren't fond of GSD's....said they are full of HD and weak nerves. lol
Then one of them worked Karlo and a couple other GSD's. The size of the GSD was more than they are use to, and I could tell that was another reason they are more into the Dutch/Mal's!

[Tim Connell]

There are some great GSD's out there...there is no disputing that. I like seeing a KNPV GSD, since it is a sport dominated by Mals and Dutchies...mostly crosses, actually.

It is always hard to determine with *any* sport evaluation though...how much is the dog/genetics, and how much is training and/or conditioning the exercises...

[onyx'girl]

right, but I think the Dutch dudes are a bit biased to the smaller structured dog. I tend to agree, the dogs they breed are so stealth and athletic for what they work them for. When Karlo was worked by the decoy, the decoy was pretty worn out, and I could tell K's 90# frame was more than he was use to...kind of like the IPO helpers working the rotties.

[mycobraracr]

Originally Posted by Tim Connell

I sometimes get requests from people looking for a "protection dog" that run the gamut from a dog that will alert to the presence of a stranger, or to alert on command, or to bite on command...and further yet: dogs that will engage in a realistic situation.

As some discussion starters:

What do you feel a dog should be capable of to be considered a "Real" protection dog? Sleeve? Suit? Hidden sleeve? Muzzle work?
All the above. Like Cliff said, they are all tools that should be used.

What kind of scenario based training do you engage in to fit your lifestyle?
I have done scenarios like:
1) I get a knock on the door (at home) my dog jumps on the door barks (you know the usual things most people want there dog trained to not do). I recall my dog off the door/entry way and have my dog in a down stay behind me and when I answer the door I get attacked or after a short conversation I get attacked and the dog engages.
2) I get home, the front door to my house is open or tampered with. I turn on my dog tell person to come out. If they don't I send dog in to search or I bring dog in on lead to search. Usually depends on the level of training for the dog and handler.

In the quote box in blue are the only things I could think of at the moment.

Tim thanks for starting some threads I'm actually enjoying reading.