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-   -   Teach a re-bite or no? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/other-protection-sports/413946-teach-re-bite-no.html)

mycobraracr 02-21-2014 12:10 AM

Teach a re-bite or no?
 
I have worked some dogs that had always been taught to bite and hold on with all their mite. For the most part they have full hard grips. They were taught this by the helper ramming the sleeve/tug/pillow in their mouths so they always got a full bite. The dogs I have seen that are trained this way have no concept of a re-bite, counter, dig in or whatever you want to call it. What are your thoughts on this? Do you teach the dog to dig in for a better grip or just bite and hold on for all it's got?

Baillif 02-21-2014 07:26 AM

Here (for mondio) we teach them to push in and rebite for full mouth grip. We would rather see the dog constantly push the decoy around than pull at all. This is especially true for leg bites which we tend to favor. It isn't completely realistic on flee attacks or face attacks while moving for the dog to get a full mouth grip on the attack every single time so it isn't a bad habit IMO to teach em to push for one. You can't escape when they do it right. Bad thing about it is a hard biter will find your actual leg and it will hurt. Many dogs can tell when they reach something underneath and will push to bite it. I've had them get my kneecap and grip down on that through a practice suit and believe me when I tell you they know when they are really hurting you and get excited by it.

Now what you don't want and I probably don't need to tell you this is the dog moving around for no reason or type writing. If they rebite it is to always be a push in for it.

robk 02-21-2014 08:56 AM

Baillif, where are you doing Mondio?

Baillif 02-21-2014 08:59 AM

Durham

mycobraracr 02-21-2014 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif (Post 5060154)
Here (for mondio) we teach them to push in and rebite for full mouth grip. We would rather see the dog constantly push the decoy around than pull at all. This is especially true for leg bites which we tend to favor. It isn't completely realistic on flee attacks or face attacks while moving for the dog to get a full mouth grip on the attack every single time so it isn't a bad habit IMO to teach em to push for one. You can't escape when they do it right. Bad thing about it is a hard biter will find your actual leg and it will hurt. Many dogs can tell when they reach something underneath and will push to bite it. I've had them get my kneecap and grip down on that through a practice suit and believe me when I tell you they know when they are really hurting you and get excited by it.

Now what you don't want and I probably don't need to tell you this is the dog moving around for no reason or type writing. If they rebite it is to always be a push in for it.



I always teach a dog to dig in as well especially on a suit. I find it to be extremely important. What I have been seeing is a lot of dogs that are not being taught this. I was watching some youtube videos last night and every bite the helper was ramming the sleeve in the dogs mouth. So I figured I would ask. I'm not talking about a dog that moves around(typewriter) on the bite.

I feel you're pain on about the dogs that dig in to get body parts, and I mean literally feel your pain. Luckily it doesn't happen to me too often on my legs since I only work a couple leg dogs. I also find the legs a little easier to slip the suit. I have been taught two different methods on suit work. One is to always slip the body part away so the dogs always get fabric. The second says that method one only teaches a dog to bite material not the person. So the decoy doesn't slip the suit and the dog feels bone in every bite. I generally go with method two.

Baillif 02-21-2014 09:59 AM

Youll see all kinds of crap on youtube. Ive seen decoys wearing masks with bite wedges in them to teach dogs to go for the face on face attacks at distance. Hilarious to watch but i would not attempt it. I dunno maybe they want the dog to keep movement to a minimum to save energy for other exercises who knows?

Ever get those big gaps in where fat tissue used to be but the repeated bitings through the suit caused the cell membranes to burst and the area swells like crazy for days? Had a really bad one on the right arm from defense of handler with a monster biter. Had people wanting me to see a doctor. Turned out fine though. But yeah if i wanted to slip bites and hide in my suit id be doing french ring.

mycobraracr 02-21-2014 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif (Post 5060770)
But yeah if i wanted to slip bites and hide in my suit id be doing french ring.


Hahaha hey now the leg dogs I work do FR.

I have had some nasty welts, swelling, bruising and punctures. Nothing quite like you're describing though. The dog that was in my avatar would puncture the suit and gauntlet on a regular basis. I have some nice scars from him.

Baillif 02-21-2014 10:21 AM

Im not dissing french ring i actually love watching it and the best french ring decoys are bad asses. The decoying is different though. Lets be honest if i were wearing an fr trial suit id be doing my damnedest to slip bites too.

lhczth 02-21-2014 10:37 AM

I want my dogs to stuff the sleeve (or suit) on their own, so, yes they are taught to counter in if they happen to get a shallow bite.

Stuffing the sleeve drives me crazy. I have seen helpers do it who just don't realize they are doing it and by helpers that do it for their own egos. "See, the dogs I train never take a shallow bite." Of course in a trial where the helper isn't stuffing the sleeve the dogs are slow into the bite and often get shallow bites which they don't correct.

Baillif 02-21-2014 10:48 AM

Yeah you bring up a good point on that too. Feed them bites and they dont strike like they should they just get all slow and lazy about it. They should be biting like it could escape at any second and then push for a deeper grip if needed.


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