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Old 12-09-2012, 07:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
x11
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Default what a difference a decoy makes

so have been doing the back yard thing out of necesity and the dog's got to growling on the sleeve and the bite became more frontal - most from a few minutes of video concluded the dog had nerve issues and frankly i started to believe it.

so anyways after a long break made the 4 hour one-way trip to have my pup evaluated by an experienced decoy to decide if the dog was suitable for bite-work or not.

long story short in one session the decoy had the dog stepping disinterested over piles of sleeves on the ground to get at the decoy with hard arm and dog spat the sleeve after it was slipped and went straight back to the decoy who picked up another sleeve off the ground - no whips, no disco-shuffle.

bite was full as a bite can get and high bite pressure, enough to hurt the decoy and put red marks all over his fore-arm.

decoy gently addressed all my concerns like i thought too much control will reduce my dog's drive and too many forearm bites will get the dog stuck on the forearm.

decoy explained it all out how control work will have the dog in more drive waiting for the bite and that THIS dog will bite whatever target is in front of him sleeve or not, arm, leg...whatever.

it was so great to work with this guy and he had my dog looking like an old shutshund dog on the cylindrical sleeve in one session.

the point of the post is that it really is true that less work if you have to with a good decoy is going to advance yr training much more than lots of work with novice decoys.

Last edited by x11; 12-09-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm so glad to hear this! I didn't see any nerve issues in the videos you have posted, but then one can't really test their own dog to their potential. There is a saying about protection training: No training is better than bad training - you get a dog with the right genetics, and they will do what they will need to do - but even a dog with good genetics can learn bad habits with bad training.

I know it is frustrating to not have experienced people around to train with, but much better to do a few good sessions with someone reliable like the guy you worked with than to do a lot of 'bad' sessions. Glad you got to see that for yourself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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imo the more you get to learn the more easy it is to appreciatte other people's views. eg i used to listen in disbelief people talking in so much detail about quality of grip, a bite is a bite is a bite or so i thought - but there really is something of beauty in a full, calm grip and it does reflect the mindset somehow of the dog and evidently the training.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Watching the transition is cool too. Glad you found a place to work your dog effectively!
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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yeah plan is once a week for next six weeks, will video progress, wish my dog wasn't shoved in a crate on a 4 hour drive before training but thats how it is.

the decoy will not put a cap on how far this dog might go - he has 60 dogs on his books plus other training contracts and training his own detection dogs for later sale, the only reason i am there cos he watched every video on my you-tube channel and was kinda amused or something whatever take opportunities when they arise.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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He probably saw a lot of potential in your boy and didn't want you mess him up!
Big compliment on you and your pup that he took you guys on.

You are just scrapping the tip of the training iceberg - how much you learn about dogs, reading dogs, and drives as you work through this will be mind blowing!
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
so have been doing the back yard thing out of necesity and the dog's got to growling on the sleeve and the bite became more frontal - most from a few minutes of video concluded the dog had nerve issues and frankly i started to believe it.

so anyways after a long break made the 4 hour one-way trip to have my pup evaluated by an experienced decoy to decide if the dog was suitable for bite-work or not.

long story short in one session the decoy had the dog stepping disinterested over piles of sleeves on the ground to get at the decoy with hard arm and dog spat the sleeve after it was slipped and went straight back to the decoy who picked up another sleeve off the ground - no whips, no disco-shuffle.

bite was full as a bite can get and high bite pressure, enough to hurt the decoy and put red marks all over his fore-arm.

decoy gently addressed all my concerns like i thought too much control will reduce my dog's drive and too many forearm bites will get the dog stuck on the forearm.

decoy explained it all out how control work will have the dog in more drive waiting for the bite and that THIS dog will bite whatever target is in front of him sleeve or not, arm, leg...whatever.

it was so great to work with this guy and he had my dog looking like an old shutshund dog on the cylindrical sleeve in one session.

the point of the post is that it really is true that less work if you have to with a good decoy is going to advance yr training much more than lots of work with novice decoys.
Had a similar experience with my male. Fought it for 8 months. New decoy had more progress in one weekend. Now the issue is fixed. It wasn't an issue of movie advice either... Just different type of dog that most don't understand.

Turns out my handling was the issue, not the helper work lol
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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thats the problem with learning training systems - it assumes all dogs are the same dog.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
thats the problem with learning training systems - it assumes all dogs are the same dog.
This was more of an issue of training an "ppd/mwd" style dog as though it was a sport dog. Just very different training to reach the same end goal
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