Do working GSDs "have" to engage in protection sports or schutzhund?

Diezel's Mom · 11-06-2011, 01:38 AM

Hello, all. I am a first-time GSD owner. I have a working dog. His name is Diezel. He's seven months old. We've been going to obedience training every weekend for about four months now and we've been doing personal protection training for the past three months. Diezel really loves it, but the personal protection training is becoming to be a bit of a financial strain for me. I initially started the protection training because my trainer informed me that Diezel is a working dog and that he "must" do this training because of that. He basically told me in so many words that without personal protection training, I could have a lawsuit on my hands one day; i.e. he may go after someone and I won't have "total" control over him or know how to call him off. So my question is: Is it vital that a working dog attend personal protection training? I'm sure that every single working dog in America is not doing this, so was I duped into signing up for this class or should I do everything I can to afford it and keep taking him? Help!

p.s.
This is my first GSD and I'm loving it!!

Big68stang · 11-06-2011, 01:48 AM

I'm not an expert but I believe that if you give him a "job" in training or doing something around the house it would do good. Coming from a working line the dog is going to be (I would assume) very high energy and have a high drive for a job.

Is it essential to do protection training? In my opinion (which may not count for much!) no, if you got him involved in another type of sport training such as agility, flyball or something along that line that would keep his mind occupied it would probably be for the best. If you let a high drive dog just sit around like a couch potato he may act out due to boredom.

Will a working line dog randomly bite somebody? If not obedience trained then yes there is a good possibility. If he is properly trained in obedience (especially the recall) you should be able call him off of anything he may do.

Hope this helps!

Anyone else feel free to chime in as I'm sure I forgot a lot! lol

**ILGHAUS** · 11-06-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

my trainer informed me that Diezel is a working dog and that he "must" do this training because of that. He basically told me in so many words that without personal protection training, I could have a lawsuit on my hands one day;

Wow!!!!

How did you find this trainer? No, no, no.

Go elsewhere and do puppy obedience, beginning level, and continue as far as you can in obedience. Personal Protection training is never to be taken lightly and relatively few owners are up to the life style. There are many threads here about personal protection training so you can hear the other side.

Konotashi · 11-06-2011, 01:16 AM

Sounds like your trainer wants you to fill up his pockets....

No, GSDs do not HAVE to do protection sports/training. Is it preferred? Yes - for the fact that Schutzhund was/is a test to the dog's temperament and working ability. However, training a PPD is a whole different ballgame compared to SchH, and given the fact I have very little knowledge about PPD training, I can't comment on that. Other than to say - no, they don't HAVE to. Some (most) GSDs aren't fit to perform such work.

They DO need a job, though. Even if it's just training them to do simple things. Maybe helping you put your laundry in the laundry basket, or picking up their toys and putting them in a toy box. You just have to keep their mind stimulated so that they don't start doing unwanted behaviors due to boredom.

nitemares · 11-06-2011, 05:20 AM

Personal protection is different than schutzhund. I am not an expert, I'm not even a beginner for that matter so feel free to ignore what I write.

A PPD that is not well trained, I think is a law suit waiting to happen. Schutzhund on the other hand, you have to go through obedience first, then evolve from there to the sleeve biting part.

A working dog means just like that, he needs a job, any job. training your dog to grab your newspaper is a job, working for their food, toy, your affection is a job (NILIF).
Keep him busy with with mind games Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

gagsd · 11-06-2011, 05:58 AM

IMO, protection training is not something you should/need to do with a PUPPY. And no, working line dogs do not need to do it at all.

Obedience and tracking are fun things to do with your pup.

How is Diezel around people right now? Social?

**MaggieRoseLee** · 11-06-2011, 08:01 AM

I agree with the others, just do SOMETHING to keep your pup mentally and physically engaged.

Whether obedience, flyball, herding, tracking, scentwork, therapy dog training, AGILITY

............

Most of us need to find the best mix of finances and time with our dogs.

Stosh · 11-06-2011, 08:04 AM

I have a working line male and I've never considered PP or ScH- just not something I'm interested in. We're trained in obedience and now herding and have taken agility, but like others have said there's a lot of 'work' your dog can do around the house that doesn't cost anything. Stosh brings in the paper, carries the mail, picks up sticks and carries them to a pile. In the house he puts his toys away in the laundry room. It's your dog and you should do what you want to with him- truthfully, just watching you is part of his job. It sounds as thought the trainer is pushing you and especially the dog- I would think 7 mos is too young for that much.

bocron · 11-06-2011, 08:04 AM

Sounds like a trainer with a good sales pitch!
If you and the dog are enjoying it and would like to continue in some manner, then find a local Schutzhund club. Much more affordable and it can be a ton of fun.
Oh, and my working line pup is 10mos old and we JUST started working her in the protection phase, and totally for fun right now. She has been doing obedience and tracking since I got her at 8 weeks and loves it.
If you'll post where you are, someone here can probably steer you to a club in your area.

Annette

cliffson1 · 11-06-2011, 08:30 AM

Work with your dog! obedience, tracking, rally, chase sticks in the woods, whatever! There is no such thing as a working dog needs to be protection trained....period. They do need to be engaged to let them develop their vast capability. Enjoy and work with your dog in whatever is stimulating and won't break your pockets.

11-06-2011, 01:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
Diezel's Mom New Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2	Do working GSDs "have" to engage in protection sports or schutzhund? Hello, all. I am a first-time GSD owner. I have a working dog. His name is Diezel. He's seven months old. We've been going to obedience training every weekend for about four months now and we've been doing personal protection training for the past three months. Diezel really loves it, but the personal protection training is becoming to be a bit of a financial strain for me. I initially started the protection training because my trainer informed me that Diezel is a working dog and that he "must" do this training because of that. He basically told me in so many words that without personal protection training, I could have a lawsuit on my hands one day; i.e. he may go after someone and I won't have "total" control over him or know how to call him off. So my question is: Is it vital that a working dog attend personal protection training? I'm sure that every single working dog in America is not doing this, so was I duped into signing up for this class or should I do everything I can to afford it and keep taking him? Help! p.s. This is my first GSD and I'm loving it!!

11-06-2011, 01:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
Konotashi Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,380	Sounds like your trainer wants you to fill up his pockets.... No, GSDs do not HAVE to do protection sports/training. Is it preferred? Yes - for the fact that Schutzhund was/is a test to the dog's temperament and working ability. However, training a PPD is a whole different ballgame compared to SchH, and given the fact I have very little knowledge about PPD training, I can't comment on that. Other than to say - no, they don't HAVE to. Some (most) GSDs aren't fit to perform such work. They DO need a job, though. Even if it's just training them to do simple things. Maybe helping you put your laundry in the laundry basket, or picking up their toys and putting them in a toy box. You just have to keep their mind stimulated so that they don't start doing unwanted behaviors due to boredom. __________________ Ozzy - Chocolate Pom "In a perfect world, every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog." My Photography

11-06-2011, 05:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
nitemares Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Egypt Posts: 412	Personal protection is different than schutzhund. I am not an expert, I'm not even a beginner for that matter so feel free to ignore what I write. A PPD that is not well trained, I think is a law suit waiting to happen. Schutzhund on the other hand, you have to go through obedience first, then evolve from there to the sleeve biting part. A working dog means just like that, he needs a job, any job. training your dog to grab your newspaper is a job, working for their food, toy, your affection is a job (NILIF). Keep him busy with with mind games Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong __________________ Nadine Tamtam - Egyptian Mau Dante (Dumpty) ze Stribrneho kamene (9-9-2011) Juventus - GSD (RIP) Animal Aid Egypt

11-06-2011, 05:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
gagsd Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 2,972	IMO, protection training is not something you should/need to do with a PUPPY. And no, working line dogs do not need to do it at all. Obedience and tracking are fun things to do with your pup. How is Diezel around people right now? Social? __________________ Animals do not have rights. Owners have responsibilities. www.columbusworkingdogs.com

11-06-2011, 08:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,215	I agree with the others, just do SOMETHING to keep your pup mentally and physically engaged. Whether obedience, flyball, herding, tracking, scentwork, therapy dog training, AGILITY ............ Most of us need to find the best mix of finances and time with our dogs. __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

11-06-2011, 01:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Big68stang New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Burlington County NJ Posts: 15	I'm not an expert but I believe that if you give him a "job" in training or doing something around the house it would do good. Coming from a working line the dog is going to be (I would assume) very high energy and have a high drive for a job. Is it essential to do protection training? In my opinion (which may not count for much!) no, if you got him involved in another type of sport training such as agility, flyball or something along that line that would keep his mind occupied it would probably be for the best. If you let a high drive dog just sit around like a couch potato he may act out due to boredom. Will a working line dog randomly bite somebody? If not obedience trained then yes there is a good possibility. If he is properly trained in obedience (especially the recall) you should be able call him off of anything he may do. Hope this helps! Anyone else feel free to chime in as I'm sure I forgot a lot! lol

11-06-2011, 08:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stosh Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tyler texas Posts: 8,434	I have a working line male and I've never considered PP or ScH- just not something I'm interested in. We're trained in obedience and now herding and have taken agility, but like others have said there's a lot of 'work' your dog can do around the house that doesn't cost anything. Stosh brings in the paper, carries the mail, picks up sticks and carries them to a pile. In the house he puts his toys away in the laundry room. It's your dog and you should do what you want to with him- truthfully, just watching you is part of his job. It sounds as thought the trainer is pushing you and especially the dog- I would think 7 mos is too young for that much.

11-06-2011, 08:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
bocron Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Milton, Georgia Posts: 1,461	Sounds like a trainer with a good sales pitch! If you and the dog are enjoying it and would like to continue in some manner, then find a local Schutzhund club. Much more affordable and it can be a ton of fun. Oh, and my working line pup is 10mos old and we JUST started working her in the protection phase, and totally for fun right now. She has been doing obedience and tracking since I got her at 8 weeks and loves it. If you'll post where you are, someone here can probably steer you to a club in your area. Annette __________________ Annette Holbrook www.coppercreekdvg.com- All Breed Schutzhund Club Home of Umarek von Hugelblick, my good luck charm!

11-06-2011, 08:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
cliffson1 Knighted Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,929	Work with your dog! obedience, tracking, rally, chase sticks in the woods, whatever! There is no such thing as a working dog needs to be protection trained....period. They do need to be engaged to let them develop their vast capability. Enjoy and work with your dog in whatever is stimulating and won't break your pockets.

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