Retrieve training

**Samba** · 09-09-2010, 12:09 PM

Hogan seems to be feeling better so today I did a bit of training with him.

We are working on the retrieve. He has the concept of the hold pretty good. He will clamp down and resists efforts to dislodge it. I still occasionally reward the good "hold" behavior because I want that to persist.

He will go get the DB and bring it back. I have not started to build a lot of drive into it yet. He is not a natural retriever in that he is a natural "possessor".

Today I decided to work on back chaining the behavior. I am trying to make the last part of the behavior the most rewarding so that he will strive to get to that last part. I sit him and place the DB in his mouth. Then I back up and call him front a short distance. He is rewarded for the coming front presentation. Once he is there I reward and even do few short ones from there so the rate of reward is high for this last part.

Does any one else do this? Any other ideas?

Uniballer · 09-09-2010, 12:56 PM

I generally start training the formal retrieve not too differently from what you have described. How are you rewarding him (e.g. spitting food to him after the out)? Does he like the toy more than food? My current SchH dog wanted to chew the dumbbell a little in front so I tried not to build any prey drive towards the dumbbell.
I also backchained the entire retrieve, including the hold, with compulsion (prong & e-collar) before feeling he was ready to trial. My club TD helped me to compel a calm hold with the e-collar in the finished retrieve with the toy exchange for a reward.

**Samba** · 09-09-2010, 01:05 PM

I currently reward with food. We haven't perfected catching the spit food yet.

He has good drive for the toy(better than food), but I have not added that to the exercise very much at all... a few times. I plan to use the toy to build drive for the DB.. I usually tease with the toy, get drive high, throw DB and then reward with toy. Flinks stuff, I think. But, I was trying to get the whole behavior pretty good before I did that.

Previous dogs, I have added compulsion to motivate and clean up the retrieve once the basics were known. This dog is 15 months old. I think I am going slow with him. Not sure why. I just feel he will come right along with compulsion but I wanted to wait a bit for maturing on this exercise.

SchHGSD · 09-09-2010, 02:31 PM

Samba I already shared this with you, but here is what I think is a great video on back-chaining a retrieve.

I know it is still floating around youtube, but I cannot find the link so I will link to it on my website:

Back Chained Retrieve Video

Whiteshepherds · 09-09-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchHGSD

Samba I already shared this with you, but here is what I think is a great video on back-chaining a retrieve.

I know it is still floating around youtube, but I cannot find the link so I will link to it on my website:

Back Chained Retrieve Video

Michelle, great video! What were you holding under your chin, was it a ball?

SchHGSD · 09-09-2010, 02:42 PM

Oh that was not me, wish it was.

This video came out of Germany a few years ago, either the dog or the handler is named Isa. It is no longer on their club website, but is still out on youtube. I grabbed it and copied it.

She does have a ball under her chin, though.

**Samba** · 09-09-2010, 02:46 PM

I am going to do that picking up on the way in next, like in the video. I like that step. Except Hogan is not that fast. But I haven't added the toy. The toy seems to make it harder for him to learn the behaviors in the beginning.

Jason L · 09-09-2010, 02:54 PM

I like the little drop of the dumbbell she did right as the dog came into the super close front position.

SchHGSD · 09-09-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason L

I like the little drop of the dumbbell she did right as the dog came into the super close front position.

The handling on that video is great to watch, it's why I keep it around and re-watch it all the time.

I have only done ONE retrieve that was not old fashioned force, and that was a Balabanov style retrieve. Great hold, great speed, BUT I lost speed on the way back. Granted, this is a young dog and the first real time his retrieve was "put together." I have video if anyone wants to see it.

My husband, however, has done 2 or 3 motivational retrieves, including his current dog which was back-chained.

**Samba** · 09-09-2010, 07:17 PM

Hogan is young and green on this exercise. He is not fast on the return. The dog in the video is breaking the sound barrier compared to him. Some of this is related to the type of dog that he is, I think. He is not a weedy speedy guy generally. I don't have labels for the types of dogs, but he is not terribly excitable in this obed stuff. He does have drive. I have to admit that I haven't added so much toy motivation to it because I am old and really value my body parts. This retrieve is going to take some time.

I love these flying dogs who come back for fun tugging. Hogan is not so much that. He uses everything he has to pull me down or overpower me in "the game". Fun game for me... not.

09-09-2010, 12:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
Samba Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,449	Retrieve training Hogan seems to be feeling better so today I did a bit of training with him. We are working on the retrieve. He has the concept of the hold pretty good. He will clamp down and resists efforts to dislodge it. I still occasionally reward the good "hold" behavior because I want that to persist. He will go get the DB and bring it back. I have not started to build a lot of drive into it yet. He is not a natural retriever in that he is a natural "possessor". Today I decided to work on back chaining the behavior. I am trying to make the last part of the behavior the most rewarding so that he will strive to get to that last part. I sit him and place the DB in his mouth. Then I back up and call him front a short distance. He is rewarded for the coming front presentation. Once he is there I reward and even do few short ones from there so the rate of reward is high for this last part. Does any one else do this? Any other ideas?

09-09-2010, 02:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
SchHGSD Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 272	Samba I already shared this with you, but here is what I think is a great video on back-chaining a retrieve. I know it is still floating around youtube, but I cannot find the link so I will link to it on my website: Back Chained Retrieve Video __________________ Michelle K. -------------- Torro v Lordon Haus (GSD) SchH3 IPO3 OFA HOT (RIP) Nico van Arek (Mal) SchH3 OFA HOT Chuligan pod Cvilinem (Mal) new puppy Quinta van Valesca's Home - She's Dutch. 'Nuff said.

09-09-2010, 02:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
SchHGSD Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 272	Oh that was not me, wish it was. This video came out of Germany a few years ago, either the dog or the handler is named Isa. It is no longer on their club website, but is still out on youtube. I grabbed it and copied it. She does have a ball under her chin, though. __________________ Michelle K. -------------- Torro v Lordon Haus (GSD) SchH3 IPO3 OFA HOT (RIP) Nico van Arek (Mal) SchH3 OFA HOT Chuligan pod Cvilinem (Mal) new puppy Quinta van Valesca's Home - She's Dutch. 'Nuff said.

09-09-2010, 12:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Uniballer Master Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western New York Posts: 666	I generally start training the formal retrieve not too differently from what you have described. How are you rewarding him (e.g. spitting food to him after the out)? Does he like the toy more than food? My current SchH dog wanted to chew the dumbbell a little in front so I tried not to build any prey drive towards the dumbbell. I also backchained the entire retrieve, including the hold, with compulsion (prong & e-collar) before feeling he was ready to trial. My club TD helped me to compel a calm hold with the e-collar in the finished retrieve with the toy exchange for a reward.

09-09-2010, 01:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Samba Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,449	I currently reward with food. We haven't perfected catching the spit food yet. He has good drive for the toy(better than food), but I have not added that to the exercise very much at all... a few times. I plan to use the toy to build drive for the DB.. I usually tease with the toy, get drive high, throw DB and then reward with toy. Flinks stuff, I think. But, I was trying to get the whole behavior pretty good before I did that. Previous dogs, I have added compulsion to motivate and clean up the retrieve once the basics were known. This dog is 15 months old. I think I am going slow with him. Not sure why. I just feel he will come right along with compulsion but I wanted to wait a bit for maturing on this exercise.

09-09-2010, 02:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
Samba Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,449	I am going to do that picking up on the way in next, like in the video. I like that step. Except Hogan is not that fast. But I haven't added the toy. The toy seems to make it harder for him to learn the behaviors in the beginning.

09-09-2010, 02:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jason L Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,980	I like the little drop of the dumbbell she did right as the dog came into the super close front position.

09-09-2010, 07:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
Samba Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,449	Hogan is young and green on this exercise. He is not fast on the return. The dog in the video is breaking the sound barrier compared to him. Some of this is related to the type of dog that he is, I think. He is not a weedy speedy guy generally. I don't have labels for the types of dogs, but he is not terribly excitable in this obed stuff. He does have drive. I have to admit that I haven't added so much toy motivation to it because I am old and really value my body parts. This retrieve is going to take some time. I love these flying dogs who come back for fun tugging. Hogan is not so much that. He uses everything he has to pull me down or overpower me in "the game". Fun game for me... not.

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