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Need advice. Czech shepherd in dog shelter. HELP.

6K views 44 replies 12 participants last post by  Slamdunc 
#1 ·
The other day a girl I know gave up her FULL BLOODED REGISTERED AKC CZECH SHEPHERD under 2 years old. After contacting her well known dog trainers, I found that she stopped going to the dog trainers. He had done so well that one of the trainers asked her to give him up so he can train and donate him to the police k9 unit. They have also encouraged her to re-home the dog because she was not the right fit to be his handler. Basically what I found out was she wanted to sell the dog a few months ago. Trainers told her it would never happen. Most people who take in a dog like him aren't going to do it if he has started showing problems with aggression. She started to go to different trainers who most likely over worked him and started to show aggression. Recently she left the dog with a friend. He growled and the friend said pick up your dog. She came to pick him up and he attacked her. She left him there and the friend took the dog to the shelter. He has been there for a few days now and I'm shocked and don't know how else to help. I have tried contacting reputable dog trainers who deal with strong breeds and I'm terrified that he will be put down or shelter will give it to a clueless person and end up hurting others without proper training. I see that this article doesn't have recent comments but I'm hoping someone will read this and give me any advice. The dog trained with the best for over at least one year and even wanted to use him for a movie etc. That dog is still in there, I'm sure. I have a shepherd mix and have no idea how much it takes to train these type of working line dogs. It's not like I can go to any of my local rescues for help. These are specific dogs who require special handlers. Please help.
 
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#4 ·
Yes I contacted two of the trainers that worked with her and the dog the first year.
I asked him if they could pull the dog out of the shelter. First one said he cares so much for the dog and is really hurting what happened. He said he would need at least 6 months to retrain him and his center is full. It also cost time and money so he really needs to think about it. The other trainer was very angry with her. He said he isn't going to take the dog after he turned aggressive like this and he doesn't think anyone would. He said that if someone educated about the breed is willing to take him, he would help train the dog. We are located in Los Angeles, CA.

From what I recall, she "rescued" the dog from someone who was leaving the country when he was just a puppy. I doubt the breeder was contacted but I'm not sure. I tried to reach out to the girl but she probably won't reply back.
 
#5 ·
Euthanize the only option to aggressive working line?

I contacted the breeder per suggested from @MineAreWorkingline
She did evaluate the dog and showing aggression (growling).
She said as a responsibility as a breeder of this dog, she can take him to be euthanized.

Is this how working line dogs are treated? Dog show shows aggression, dog handler dumps the dog, and only option is euthanasia?

I deal with mutts, rescues, rehabilitation - this world is new to me. This is why I am on a forum like this. Please help me.
This is breaking my heart - a complete tragedy.
 
#7 ·
I contacted the breeder per suggested from @MineAreWorkingline
She did evaluate the dog and showing aggression (growling).
She said as a responsibility as a breeder of this dog, she can take him to be euthanized.

Is this how working line dogs are treated? Dog show shows aggression, dog handler dumps the dog, and only option is euthanasia?

I deal with mutts, rescues, rehabilitation - this world is new to me. This is why I am on a forum like this. Please help me.
This is breaking my heart - a complete tragedy.
I am not sure why a breeder would opt to put down a working line Czech dog that shows aggression.

German Shepherds are supposed to have a modicum of aggression. It is the breed standard so I doubt the dog showing aggression is the problem unless it is inappropriate aggression.

Could you post this dog's pedigree? Or pictures? It might help find a resolution to this.
 
#6 ·
Maybe the trainers and the breeder of the dog see something and there's a reason they aren't taking the dog? Maybe there's things you don't know about that led to the dog being re-homed previously? It isn't specific to working line dogs other then maybe a more realistic way of judging temperament by people with experience.
 
#8 ·
Thank you @Steve Strom -
He was never re-homed. It was suggested because the trainers felt she was not the right handler for him. But she refused.
Trainers said he was doing great. Dogs do change but people don't. She went to different trainers in the end and they feel often times they push too hard and the dogs will just turn on them. He is growling and showing aggression.

The trainers want to take him but it cost too much money and time to retrain him.
Breeder says she wants to euthanize him.

Is that it? Thats the right thing to do?
He is in a local dog shelter right now.
 
#9 ·
Aero Od Elitni (aka Logan Sharpe)

FREE FULL BLOODED REGISTERED AKC CZECH SHEPHERD

www.PetHarbor.com pet:LACT2.A1569900

According to what the owner told the breeder was the trainer stressed him into biting. (although it may be true but I wouldn't trust a word of someone who abandoned her dog irresponsibly.

owner apparently had to tie him down to feed him. (she is an inexperienced handler to these types of dogs - many times the trainers asked her to re-home the dog because she wasn't cut out to handle these types of dogs but she refused).
 
#10 ·
You said rescued from the original owner. I used re-homed. She wasn't the original owner. A trainer's time is worth money. You don't think a trainer would use some of that time to take a good dog and train him to make some money? A breeder wouldn't take back a good dog to re-sell?
 
#11 ·
Yes, true sorry. But he was just a puppy when she took him so I just consider her the owner.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that he is no longer a good dog because trainers and breeders are not willing to take him in to re-train and sell?
 
#12 ·
I'm just giving you different things to consider since you were questioning if this was somehow a working dog thing. Its not that he is no longer a good dog, but good dog means something different to everyone that says it. Maybe he has no working abilities, but he could be a good pet for someone. Maybe not a good pet for anyone. Maybe the breeder and trainer aren't anyone to listen to anymore then the owner. I don't think its anything different then what a lot of dogs end up in, not something unique to a working line dog that had some half a,,,,,,, training.
 
#14 ·
Thank you.

As I'm not familiar with these types of dogs. Can they become ordinary pets?
From what the girl (owner) used to tell me is that these type of dogs are very intense and need to be trained properly constantly or else they become so stressed to the point of destruction and aggressive. Can they be renurtured as not a working dog but a regular pet with no duties other than a companion to someone?
 
#15 ·
LAshep, the key statement that you offered is this one: "She came to pick him up and he attacked her."

If by attack you mean "bit" then this dog has a known bite history. It's apparently handler-aggressive, not just stranger-aggressive. That's a BIG deal for rehoming.

Please step back and think about this dog's history. You are in Los Angeles where homeless purebred GSDs are a dime a dozen. For every rescue spot, there are probably 10 GSDs at various high-kill shelters in cities in LA County, San Bernardino County, and Orange County that all need that one rescue spot to avoid euthanasia. The rescue's volunteers have to pick which one dog will be the lucky one they save. The same is true of the trainers who rehab dogs: there are tons of dogs these trainers can choose to take on as "personal project dogs," so why wouldn't they choose the ones that don't bite their owners? There are too many good, loving, non-aggressive GSDs looking for homes to use up a scarce foster-spot on a human-aggressive dog.

It may be a dog who was failed by an owner who messed it up by doing all the wrong things early. That happens. It's terribly sad. Fixing these dogs is not always easy though, and very few trainers or foster homes have the right skill set. The liability of getting it wrong is something that gives me sleepless nights in rescue.

I'm actually surprised this shelter is allowing the dog to be adopted out to the public. Was it surrendered with full notice to the shelter of the bite history?
 
#18 ·
Thanks magwart.

I understand about all the dogs who need homes. The reason I came on this forum is because it seems to be full of owners who deal with working and show line dogs. I think and correct me if I'm wrong but these types of dogs are not the same as your typical shepherds and mutts waiting in shelters for their forever home.

This dog does have training and AKC bla bla bla (which I don't know much about).

I heard someone say "attacked" but I verified with the breeder and the story she was told by the owner was that he "growled" at her when she came to pick him up from her friends home but instead just left him there for her friend to deal with. Now she could be lying about it but lets assume it was not a attack but a growl.

The breeder had the dog assessed by a working dog trainer, who stated it could be fixed with a lot of time ($$$) but still would always have to manage his behavioral issues.

The owners explanation is that, trainers she was with couldn't get him to be aggressive enough and they stressed him into biting so that is the root of his behavioral issues. (she said this to the breeder)

I remember one of the first times I met the owner for coffee, I took my dog as I always do and thought she would bring him as well. She told me that I was not allowed to meet Logan or touch him. She didn't allow Logan to socialize with anyone or other dogs except for at the training center. This was the first time I was introduced to working line dogs and realized how different they were.

*By the way, thank you for al the help everyone. I do appreciate it. I have been a dog owner to many rescued mutts - I just don't have any experience when it comes to these "working line" dogs who are trained very differently.
 
#19 ·
IF the shelter knows he has a bite history, odds are the dog won't be adoptable. If he is this aggressive, then I'm not sure adopting him out to possibly some unexpecting person or even worse, family, is dangerous and irresponsible.


OP, I understand you have an emotional attachment to this dog, but sometimes the whole picture has to be taken into account. It's very sad that this dog is in this situation and I really admire how hard you are trying to help him. The feedback you're getting isn't restricted to working lines or show lines. It happens everyday to many other German Shepherds and many other breeds. Go to any shelter any day and you will see heartbreaking dogs.


Rehabilitation on a dog like this would be very difficult and he could probably never be fully trustable. I truly hope you can find a solution that will work in his best interests. You're doing an awesome job on his behalf.
 
#22 ·
Hey LaShep, are you considering fostering this dog?

The vast majority of working-line dogs of any breed variety, malinois included, are mostly companion animals. If they weren't we'd have a lot more schutzhund (IPO), mondio, PSA type clubs around the country. So most people with working line dogs train on their own and keep their dogs as mostly companions. It is fairly rare for a dog to end up as a working police K9 or as a high level sport dog. Even sport dogs are not usually "officially" worked all that often. They are exercised, given drive outlets, and trained, but they are not actively trained in sport protection, for example, that often- maybe once or twice a week, at maximum.

That said, a working line dog is really quite unique to the vast majority of "pet" owners. To own this type of dog you need to understand how they were bred, why they were bred, and train them, exercise them, appropriately. Along with giving them the drive outlets they need. A good game of tug or fetch is usually enough to meet that, but sports and clubs are always the ideal for this type of dog. I am often kind of taken aback when I meet a "pet" dog these days because they are so much more laid back, low energy, non-challenging. Some can be difficult, for sure, but generally in a different way or not to the level of a dog bred from a long line of working dogs.

I am not a fan of handler aggression, but I don't necessarily have a problem with aggression in proper context, and properly controlled. I am not sure what the breeder saw to warrant euthanasia. Perhaps the breeder simply does not have the resources to take on a project. Breeders are people, too.
 
#23 ·
Thank you Deb.

I do know the shelters well and I know there are many deserving dogs who need homes. I've volunteered to clean and walk dogs in shelters for a 3 years. My friend runs a rescue and she pulls dogs from shelters all the time. I get it all. (yesterday was the first time in my life that I spoke to a dog breeder)

I only met Logan once during a photoshoot my friend was doing. I've only met the girl twice. I just know that his a special kind of dog. She sent me the link to the craigslist post and I had to try and help.

The attack seemed to have been exaggerated by one of the trainers I contacted. He growled and of course that can be very dangerous.


I have many friends who have dogs who have behavior problems (aggression) but they would never dump their dog at a shelter. I know dumping dogs happen every day but it's just wrong. :(
 
#24 ·
It sounds like this boy had a really poor bringing up, LaShep. And I'm so glad you volunteer, I started volunteering when I was 14 at a 'local' shelter. LOL, it wasn't very local but my mother was great about taking me there every weekend.


I really hope the organizations you were given can help out.
 
#25 ·
If there is really no bite history, then you can see if German Shepherd Rescue of LA (in Burbank) or Westside German Shepherd Rescue (downtown LA) will help. When you give them the info, give them ALL the info (incl. contact info for the trainers who know this dog, if you have it). That way, they can do a full assessment with all the facts. Please don't sugar coat the bad stuff when you reach out to them--it will all help with the assessment, if they know they need to look for aggression triggers.
 
#26 ·
Muskeg - Thank you.

No I'm in not qualified to foster or adopt Logan. I literally just learned the term "working line" and show line" last week!

The owner trained Logan often from what she told me. Going to centers a few times a week doing agility training and CGC training. I don't know if its true but she told me that Logan comes from a family of dogs who were used in war.

Its great insight knowing that even working line dogs are not always worked and mainly companion animals.

I was just basing my limited knowledge to what the girl told me and how strict the training had to be for dogs like Logan. She told me that without constant training, they will become aggressive and euthanized. That they had to be isolated and no person or pet can interfere with Logan's training - hence she never allowed anyone or other dogs to go near him except at the center. (this was the first time I ever heard anyone say socialization was bad!)
 
#29 ·
lashep- it is commendable of you to try to find a foster for this dog.

I think it is VERY difficult to find anyone with the expertise or willingness to take on this type of dog. Most trainers are clueless about it or will push a dog like this beyond what he can handle- if he goes to escape first, they will do something like table-training to force a bite. A good trainer may not want a dog that has "issues" common to many working line dogs but without the drive or nerves to succeed at sport.

He's a beautiful dog, and it is sad his breeder will not try another option than euthanasia, but in reality, that is probably the easiest thing for the breeder to do. It sounds like the dog does not have the proper nerves or drive for actual protection work and has been forced into it.

I'm sorry. But unfortunately if the owner is out of the picture, dogs like this tend to fall between the cracks.
 
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