German Shepherd Dog Forums - Reply to Topic

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Thread: 5 month old is out of control - even after completing training Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces):
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
09-06-2014 12:16 AM
zyppi Didn't read all the replies, but my thought on original post is that you have a typical German Shepherd pup .

Love your pup, go back to basics ( sit, here, etc.. With treats for correct response) and lose the idea that there is a magic fix.

Your pup needs to mature.

You need to "lead" your pup, not strong arm at this stage.

More exercise, more fun.

You need to be the most fun thing (person) your pup knows.

Fortunately, they are loyal and forgiving.
09-05-2014 10:24 PM
TEZPUR1976
positive training

Dear Friend ur pup may be 50 lbs but he is still a pup, he/she will continue to be so until 1 year (at least). Please have some patience and mercy. Choking beating will only make things worse, and you may end up destroying a fine dog.

Please watch vedios of positive dog training https://www.youtube.com/user/tab289, and try it yourself. It is a good exercise for the owner as well. Stay away from a trainer who claims to have FULLY trained a five month old pup. A five month old pups is only in the learning phase. Let him be pup.

All Best





Quote:
Originally Posted by intothevoiddd View Post
My pup is 5 months old and 50lbs. We originally had him in treat training, realized it wasn't a good fit as we were having lots of behavioral problems and decided to put him in choke collar training. We had the most wonderful trainer who worked miracles on our dog, literally turned him into a new dog. We have been very consistent, and our dog was behaving very appropriately both at home and on walks.

He turned 5 months 2 weeks ago, and since then it has been an absolute nightmare. He is back to all of his bad behaviors. He attacks our cat, he barks at old ladies with hair up on walks, he is out of control pulling on walks, he's on the counters and table, in the garbage, nipping, out of control when guests are over, etc...

I don't know what the problem is. He was totally fine a few weeks ago, and now it's total chaos again. We just finished up obedience training, but he started doing this before the last week. In particular he is not responding to the choke collar anymore, he just pulls and pulls to his hearts content despite how many times we "pop" him. We aren't being aggressive obvious, just trying to keep him under control, but when he is fighting it it looks quite bad. We have to physically restrain him sometimes and we get some very dirty looks. It's really hard on me because of his size now. I think he understands he is gaining the upper hand and just says whatever to me. In training class he was always a real peach, and he has been very good for my boyfriend up until recently.

I was thinking maybe this was because of the teenage stage, but it seems to be too early for that. Any thoughts or advice?
09-04-2014 06:20 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
Depends on your definition of necessary. If you have a harder dog with his own mind then you can do all the leash pressure work in the world but at the end of the day if you want to walk any distance without having the dog pulling the whole way and potentially injuring herself you follow the path of least resistance. People seem to think you do some leash pressure work and all of a sudden the pup stops pulling.
Sure they do in some cases, however in many cases the dog is just not ready to retain and generalize that info, especially if your asking for consistent behaviors for any length of time.

I dont expect the pup to walk at heel, that is to much pressure imo. So when the pup gets to be 4 months plus and the weight and strength of the dog is making the pulling uncomfortable I have no issues with people moving to a prong to slow the dog down. The effects of the prong are ofcourse being over exagerated on here. I have used it early then used it on the same adult during protection with the dog pulling heavily into it. I use the same prong to correct the dog, do detail work and protection. Dog isnt a beast either.

They arent all little sponges that love to please no matter how you train.
I agree! Onyx is not biddable at all. She will only do things if she thinks there is something in it for her. She is fairly independent and a bit of a bully. She is also quite large in structure and reactive. A prong ramped her up when she was 6 months, so I quit using it. But went back to one as nothing else worked. She is food motivated, but when she was in 'the zone' food wasn't important, neither were tugs/balls...she wanted to kill whatever she was reacting to.
All dogs are different, I have three that are not similar at all as far as training/ handler sensitivity goes. Kacie never needed a prong, using just a flat collar with a bit of pressure and she's fine.
09-04-2014 06:10 PM
Blitzkrieg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
It's the way you set your rules though. If you don't ever allow them in those areas, it's one thing. But if you're just trying to get it across to them by correcting when they go upstairs and you’re downstairs…it’s too late (we all know the dog doesn’t connect being on that level to the correction at that point). I also believe a large part of where your dogs are is your relationship with your dog…if it wants to be by you, it will be by you. If YOU are the fun thing in its life that gives it treats/praise/plays tug with it, why would it need to go upstairs…there’s nothing up there.

Maybe thats were the cat lives..the possibilities are endless. Like I said I have never had issues making boundaries clear to dogs that I keep. That includes open rooms that they have been before.


The prong thing…I had a dog like that…just don’t think it’s necessary to have a prong on that early, they’re still developing and very very few dogs *need* a prong collar at that age. In this type of situation, it’s a relationship thing. The dog just doesn’t care to listen to the owner unless there is a threat of punishment/pain. That’s not how I raise my dogs and don’t believe that his is one of the world’s “hardest” dogs that needs this. Highly doubt OP has a super hard dog that just won’t listen to them unless it’s corrected.

A lot of the issues are due to focus/relationship. When the dog is allowed to roam…it roams. It doesn’t look to interact with the handler. Says a lot about the relationship.
Depends on your definition of necessary. If you have a harder dog with his own mind then you can do all the leash pressure work in the world but at the end of the day if you want to walk any distance without having the dog pulling the whole way and potentially injuring herself you follow the path of least resistance. People seem to think you do some leash pressure work and all of a sudden the pup stops pulling.
Sure they do in some cases, however in many cases the dog is just not ready to retain and generalize that info, especially if your asking for consistent behaviors for any length of time.

I dont expect the pup to walk at heel, that is to much pressure imo. So when the pup gets to be 4 months plus and the weight and strength of the dog is making the pulling uncomfortable I have no issues with people moving to a prong to slow the dog down. The effects of the prong are ofcourse being over exagerated on here. I have used it early then used it on the same adult during protection with the dog pulling heavily into it. I use the same prong to correct the dog, do detail work and protection. Dog isnt a beast either.

They arent all little sponges that love to please no matter how you train.
09-04-2014 05:42 PM
Sunflowers Training is never "completed."
09-04-2014 04:37 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
I think your selling a lot of dogs short. My dogs are on the mainfloor no upstairs or downstairs. They picked that up from the moment they came in the house. I find dogs pick up on boundaries very quickly. I also never thought a puppy would need a prong..until I met one that did if I didnt want a dog with a crushed trachea. You should see how fast the hunting retriever guys start with their obedience. Running cold blinds, water work, etc. Complicated stuff. You see them starting the dogs at 6 months. In the end there are no hard and fast rules. Its all about your personal needs.

Undoubtedly the OP needs a professional.
It's the way you set your rules though. If you don't ever allow them in those areas, it's one thing. But if you're just trying to get it across to them by correcting when they go upstairs and you’re downstairs…it’s too late (we all know the dog doesn’t connect being on that level to the correction at that point). I also believe a large part of where your dogs are is your relationship with your dog…if it wants to be by you, it will be by you. If YOU are the fun thing in its life that gives it treats/praise/plays tug with it, why would it need to go upstairs…there’s nothing up there.

The prong thing…I had a dog like that…just don’t think it’s necessary to have a prong on that early, they’re still developing and very very few dogs *need* a prong collar at that age. In this type of situation, it’s a relationship thing. The dog just doesn’t care to listen to the owner unless there is a threat of punishment/pain. That’s not how I raise my dogs and don’t believe that his is one of the world’s “hardest” dogs that needs this. Highly doubt OP has a super hard dog that just won’t listen to them unless it’s corrected.

A lot of the issues are due to focus/relationship. When the dog is allowed to roam…it roams. It doesn’t look to interact with the handler. Says a lot about the relationship.
09-04-2014 04:10 PM
Blitzkrieg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
To each their own…but I don’t believe a prong collar should be used on a 5 month old. I highly doubt you couldn’t find some sort of food that this dog would work for. I’ve yet to meet a dog that doesn’t do something for a hot dog. If the dog doesn’t want to do things for food…stop feeding it for a day or two and you’ll see the dog work for food.

I’m not too worried about the drive building, I’m more worried about the relationship building. The part about the stairs…the handler is equating two different exercises thinking that one will accomplish the other. It won’t. Making a dog wait to go up the stairs until you say so, teaches the dog that when you’re going up/down stairs, he has to wait for you to say it’s alright to go. If you’re not there, what does he have to wait for? On top of that…if you’re not there, there is no risk of a correction, so what’s the worry about going up/down the stairs to explore a little? The dog then gets caught, corrected/yelled at, and has no idea why. Confusion and no training is accomplished.

I’m not saying the dog can’t be trained with compulsion, I really don’t care. My point is that the end goal of the handler is way too difficult for the dog to understand. I don’t even think an older dog could understand something like, “stay on the same floor as me.” My dogs (at their grandparents) will go up/down the stairs when we’re in the basement. If I want them with me, I will call them. They come. I give praise, they realize that I want them near me. An hour later, they might venture upstairs because they’re dogs, and they want to do something. If I want to stop them, I’ll leash or close the door to the upstairs…simple as that. I don’t believe you can expect a dog to “stay in an area” without having some sort of physical restraint. I’m also not saying that a “stay” isn’t possible, but a stay is generally…stay in this one spot…not in this area, which is very clear to the dog.


I think your selling a lot of dogs short. My dogs are on the mainfloor no upstairs or downstairs. They picked that up from the moment they came in the house. I find dogs pick up on boundaries very quickly. I also never thought a puppy would need a prong..until I met one that did if I didnt want a dog with a crushed trachea. You should see how fast the hunting retriever guys start with their obedience. Running cold blinds, water work, etc. Complicated stuff. You see them starting the dogs at 6 months. In the end there are no hard and fast rules. Its all about your personal needs.

Undoubtedly the OP needs a professional.
09-04-2014 01:26 PM
Baillif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChouMaKen View Post
I am very interested by this, can you please just highlight your reward and/or punishment ways ?

Do you physically correct the dog or you just withhold reward?

thanks
Both. I of course start with withheld reward but, once I know they know what I am asking for punishment for non compliance within the same pictures begins. Most people assume a dog has to do lots and lots of repetitions before this happens but it is not the case. Many times I will teach a behavior and then begin to nag-punish non compliance in the same session.

There is of course way more to it than this but that is the basic jist of it.
09-04-2014 12:53 PM
Blanketback My dog was also on a prong at 5 months, to settle down his pulling on walks. I didn't use it to correct him with, at that age -I just wanted a collar on him that he wouldn't want to throw every single ounce of himself into, seriously choking himself, like he was doing on the flat collar.

He wasn't food motivated at all outdoors, and since I was also using clicker/treat to teach other things, I didn't want to lessen the food reward to him, so I removed it. I personally don't believe in witholding food, even though I'll bet a hungry puppy will do all sorts of things for food, it just isn't something I'm willing to do.
09-04-2014 10:54 AM
Liesje Legend wore a prong when he was 5 months, and he's actually a bit soft as far as training/temperament. We had the most AWFUL winter and he was (and still is) behind as far as how I normally train a dog. He was 5 months old before I started taking him out on walks (though I was taking him all over from day 1, just not leash walks) and with all the training I do, honestly leash walking is not a huge priority for me. As long as my dogs aren't dragging me around, getting distracted by other people/dogs, or zig-zagging, I don't really care if they are walking 4 feet in front of me or on my right instead of my left. I put a prong on little Legend and we started going for walks. No big deal. I don't use walks for training, they are either for exercise (mostly me), for socialization (in Legend's case he was seeing new places, people, etc and I was giving him more freedom to investigate), or for getting from point A to point B.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:35 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum