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Thread: dominance, leadership and respect Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-22-2014 08:58 AM
Blanketback
Quote:
Originally Posted by atravis View Post
And not all dogs are like that, so...?
So...I believe that it's the human that completes this equation. Not all humans have leadership qualities, obviously.
08-20-2014 08:18 PM
atravis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
I mentioned my dog following me, but not to indicate that he respects me - just that he wants to do what I'm doing, at all times. Rest? OK. Chores? OK! Play? OK!!! I brought it up to say that he willingly accepts me guiding the path to our day-to-day existence. To me, that's what leadership is, it's a 'git 'er done' attitude that we share.
And not all dogs are like that, so...?

Perhaps the concept of "dominance" is to the dog as religion is to people: some subscribe and some do not?
08-20-2014 08:14 PM
selzer Respect is something that can mean different things. You might respect the strength and power of the other guy, understanding you are no match to him.

But do you want for people to respect you for your muscle and ferocity, your brute strength? Or do you want people to respect you because of your intelligence and decision making ability? Or do you want for people to respect you because of your honesty and fairness?

We can gain a level of compliance from our dogs by starting out bigger and stronger and maintaining a strong front. The dogs will follow a strong leader and that can be a form of respect. We can tolerate no misbehavior and by correcting what we do not want, we set the dog up so that we can correct or reward, the dog will accept our leadership, and it can be respect.

But there are other ways to build a strong relationship of respect/trust between dog and owner. Some of us choose to train the dog by rewarding the behavior we want, being consistent, being fair, using corrections to teach dogs what we want, and using games and treats and praise and training to build confidence and experience between the dog and the owner. Dogs will respect this leader as well. By being predictable, by providing boundaries, and by setting the dog up to succeed, and then praising it for it.

And some go even farther down this path, and instead of molding the dog into the critter they want, they take the critter they have and play to its strengths, and embrace its ability to use its mind, use its instinct, and make good decisions. They partner with the dog, they know the dog inside and out, its strengths and weaknesses. They trust the dog, and the dog trusts them. Through experience and fairness and meeting out the right amount of encouragement, they build a bond of respect.

Dogs aren't stupid. They do tend to respect the people that are taking care of them. And for some dogs it takes serious neglect/insanity for them to not respect the human. They still have to learn what the human wants. I think even abusive treatment can be respected moreso than unpredictability, instability that humans often use when they have a dog and don't know what they are doing. Sometimes they talk with baby talk to try to get the dog to do something, and sometimes they get mad and shout at the dog. They expect the dog to do things the dog is not trained to do, punish unfairly, and inconsistently. They let things go and go and go and then blow up at the dog. They take things personally, and act accordingly.
08-20-2014 08:00 PM
llombardo
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalachka View Post
I know what SA indicates and that's why I said I'm not sure why he's following me and it's not necessarily respect IF that's what following means

the reason I brought up abuse and stuff was because people are using dogs shadowing thrm as a sign the dog respects them. so I'm saying then those owners whose dogs don't shadow them don't have their dogs respect?

also some owners abuse their dogs and though I don't know any but I'm sure there are some. so their dogs respect them too? if so then respect from thrm doesn't mean much in terms of saying something about our leadership or ownership style
There aren't many people that will say their dogs don't follow them or like to be near their owners. That is what dogs do. GSD's probably do top the list.when I was training Robyn we did a follow me exercise and the trainer said to me that I shouldn't have a problem with the exercise because I have a GSD. Even if they don't follow, they still check in, it's in their nature . You might not realize it, but they are watching. It's kinda creepy
08-20-2014 07:56 PM
Blanketback I mentioned my dog following me, but not to indicate that he respects me - just that he wants to do what I'm doing, at all times. Rest? OK. Chores? OK! Play? OK!!! I brought it up to say that he willingly accepts me guiding the path to our day-to-day existence. To me, that's what leadership is, it's a 'git 'er done' attitude that we share.
08-20-2014 07:53 PM
llombardo A good example of a dog with SA is one that is destructive if left alone or will pace, cry and just not give up looking for their owners. Of course there are different levels if SA but most dogs with it should be crated for their own safety. When I got Batman back from my dad he was showing signs of SA. At my dads he had freedom, wasn't in a crate, and my dad was home with him all the time. I had to go get him a hard plastic crate because he freaked out in the wire one. He was drooling profusely and looked a mess. I got him a thunder shirt, he got it off and ate it within a couple weeks, but he already improved drastically by that point. Now he is fine and nice and calm, he just needed to get used to a different lifestyle. The only one left in a crate when I go to work is the youngest golden. He was out for a while, but he decided to eat the area rug, so back in he went. Eventually all of them will be out of the crate. They walk me to the door in the morning and go lay down. The air is set to 68 degrees and they have a full bowl of water, they have it good and they know I'll be back soon
08-20-2014 07:47 PM
lalachka I know what SA indicates and that's why I said I'm not sure why he's following me and it's not necessarily respect IF that's what following means

the reason I brought up abuse and stuff was because people are using dogs shadowing thrm as a sign the dog respects them. so I'm saying then those owners whose dogs don't shadow them don't have their dogs respect?

also some owners abuse their dogs and though I don't know any but I'm sure there are some. so their dogs respect them too? if so then respect from thrm doesn't mean much in terms of saying something about our leadership or ownership style
08-20-2014 07:40 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalachka View Post
Ok so those owners that have dogs that don't like to be petted are what? abusive? bad owners?
what about those that abuse their dogs and still have dogs cling to them

I guess to me it's more about the dog you end up with. maybe not.
I really don't understand. A dog can be more independent, and not be abused. Heck, Babsy sticks to me like glue while I am eating. After she's licked off my plate though, she heads down the hall to go and lay on My bed. But she respects me. She knows I am the one that can give her something from the table or fridge, but it is more than that. We have a relationship. She is comfortable enough for me to be out of sight at times, but she is always ready to go with me, and when out with her, she is a superstar. We connect to that point where she and I can move in a harmony of sorts, complementing each other. I can walk her off-lead and allow her to go ahead, and when we go to cross a street, I can call her to heel. She can precede the kids to the park, and will not chase the squirrel crossing the road if I say, Leave it. There is no yelling, no forcing, no harshness. We sit together on the bench up town, and then she will hop down and lie in front. She waits for me to give her the signal, and then will run to the SUV and load herself up.

Babs is not an independent dog. There are dogs that are a lot more independent than she. But she doesn't need to stick to me every moment and walk with me from room to room.

I know what she really likes, and she knows when to come to me and sit in her chair next to mine, and be there. What independence she has does not indicate lack of respect, nor does it indicate any abuse, it is who she is. When I respect that, then I gain her respect and make the bond stronger.

SA does not indicate respect. It indicates a weakness of nerves, and more dependence on human half of the relationship. But it does not indicate a lack of respect either. Some dogs have SA. Some dogs are shadows, without having SA.
08-20-2014 07:28 PM
Blanketback
Quote:
Originally Posted by atravis View Post
You think all dogs are like this?
I have no clue, lol. I've only ever had GSDs, so I can't say what other dogs are like. I don't see the "hero worship" thing going on though - I see my dog wanting to be with me first, and taking care of business second. If I take the garbage out, he needs to go too. But he won't just follow me to the curb, because he needs to make sure that the cats next door aren't on our property. This is a job he takes very seriously! But he'll keep me within view. We're both getting our chores done, together.
08-20-2014 07:17 PM
lalachka Ok so those owners that have dogs that don't like to be petted are what? abusive? bad owners?
what about those that abuse their dogs and still have dogs cling to them

I guess to me it's more about the dog you end up with. maybe not.
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