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Thread: My GSD is crying even though we keep active. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-02-2014 03:18 PM
Baillif No disagreement with that statement but what I'm saying is the whining can quickly become like singing in the shower. It helps vent some frustration and energy and is like singing in the shower. They just keep doing it because the action itself is reinforcing and when that happens it doesn't matter how consistent you are, the behavior will remain until punished to the point of eradication.
07-02-2014 03:15 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister C View Post
Excellent advice Lilie.

I knew this going in when I got my pup at 8 weeks. If my pup cries after all his needs are met then he gets ignored. The first few days he cried like crazy but he quickly realized that it did nothing for him. He was being a brat and I shut that down quickly. Now, he has a great off switch and can quietly hang out for hours.

Like many loving parents, you may not recognize the whining as being bratty but IMHO that is exactly what she is at that moment. Train for the behavior you want an ignore the behavior you don't want.

You don't necessarily need a trainer if you are willing to learn and do it yourself. There are a ton of great videos out there for free. Just a few short training sessions each day will make a world of difference.

Here is the "sitting on the dog" thread referred to above.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...tting-dog.html
Just gonna piggy back here, post 19 has additional info

And stuff you might find useful is in post 8 here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...allenging.html
07-02-2014 02:46 PM
wolfy dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
Furthermore even if it hasn't reached that point yet it could easily reach that point through the just ignore it method suggested above. Why? Let's say you go up to a coke machine and it takes your money even though it's given you a soda every time you've performed that action in the past. Do you just walk away then and there? No usually you get frustrated and hit the button again and again and maybe smack the machine and maybe even put more money in. The dog will do the same thing. Except sticking with the metaphor the dog might find that it really really likes just pushing the button.

If this occurs stopping it even with punishment becomes a much harder task because it becomes a lottery situation if you can't stop it every single time it occurs until the behavior is extinguished.
The difference between a coke machine (consistent trainer) and a slot machine (inconsistent trainer) is that when a coke machine fails, you don't try a lot longer after the initial frustrated burst but with the slot machine you know for sure that eventually it will pay off, making that habit ingrained.
07-02-2014 02:38 PM
Baillif Furthermore even if it hasn't reached that point yet it could easily reach that point through the just ignore it method suggested above. Why? Let's say you go up to a coke machine and it takes your money even though it's given you a soda every time you've performed that action in the past. Do you just walk away then and there? No usually you get frustrated and hit the button again and again and maybe smack the machine and maybe even put more money in. The dog will do the same thing. Except sticking with the metaphor the dog might find that it really really likes just pushing the button.

If this occurs stopping it even with punishment becomes a much harder task because it becomes a lottery situation if you can't stop it every single time it occurs until the behavior is extinguished.
07-02-2014 02:19 PM
Baillif Correcting the behavior if you knowingly created it is unfair. Correcting it to fix it regardless of how it was created or who created it is the right call here. Just because its unfair doesnt mean its not the way to go.

Behavior like whining and barking can and usually does become self reinforcing so it needs to be punished before it reaches that point if it hasnt already. Then the conditioning of relaxing and switching off can start to occur. But what do I know? I just do this for a living.

Negative punishment (withholding attention) cannot fix this problem if the behavior itself is positive reinforced by the act of doing it.
07-02-2014 01:57 PM
wolfy dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.
Agree 100%. Dogs do what works. It takes a long time to wean her off this behavior and you have to be completely consistent in never giving her attention for this whining. Otherwise she'll practice the slot machine effect; going on and on until it finally pays off.
07-02-2014 01:49 PM
Mister C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
Heres the good news....your pup is showing focus on you. That is a good thing! Use it to your advantage!
totally agree.

Also, don't feel bad. GSDs are wicked smart dogs and are intent on training you. My 4 month old pup has me pretty well trained already--in a good way.
07-02-2014 01:46 PM
Lilie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brighamb View Post
I will work on that then. Thank you.
Heres the good news....your pup is showing focus on you. That is a good thing! Use it to your advantage!
07-02-2014 01:29 PM
Mister C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.
Excellent advice Lilie.

I knew this going in when I got my pup at 8 weeks. If my pup cries after all his needs are met then he gets ignored. The first few days he cried like crazy but he quickly realized that it did nothing for him. He was being a brat and I shut that down quickly. Now, he has a great off switch and can quietly hang out for hours.

Like many loving parents, you may not recognize the whining as being bratty but IMHO that is exactly what she is at that moment. Train for the behavior you want an ignore the behavior you don't want.

You don't necessarily need a trainer if you are willing to learn and do it yourself. There are a ton of great videos out there for free. Just a few short training sessions each day will make a world of difference.

Here is the "sitting on the dog" thread referred to above.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...tting-dog.html
07-02-2014 01:18 PM
Brighamb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.

I will work on that then. Thank you.
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