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Thread: HELP! Prong collar not enough~ * Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-24-2014 04:29 PM
bennrobin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamie View Post
I'm new to this site- My 12 mo. working male can pull me down OR pull leash out of my hand if he sees a rabbit/ cat whilst walking. He's neutered, he's slender, + has had puppy obedience + teen obedience classes.

He wears a prong collar, fitted by obedience teacher [that was mos. ago]. I have newly developed hand arthritis, which is the absolute pits, + need to really have a hold on this dog. HELP + bless you for writing me back!
Hi, Mamie. We have a 17-month old sweet, sweet, sweet, GSD, 100 pounds who was doing the same thing to us. The lunging and pulling were the worst. Almost had a few face plants LOL. He just wanted to go play with other dogs. But other dogs were scared of him. Choke collar and prong collar did not work.

We finally invested in The Dog Wizard. They are a franchise. We have one in South Carolina called The Columbia Dog Wizard. They train using the e-collar, money-back guarantee, lifetime training.

It is expensive but like my husband said the best investment he ever made.

We are happy. The dog is happy. We can even walk him off leash now. The police who patrol our neighborhood are amazed at how well he behaves (don't even say anything about him not being on leash since he never leaves my side). As all trainers say, the hardest job is training the owners but we are learning and hopefully soon we will not need the e-collar at all.

Such a life changer.

Robin
07-23-2014 12:51 PM
Nikkavy
Specifics?

I would love to hear a few specifics on what you've done to control high drive dogs from lunging on leash at animals or items. My female is just determined to lunge / get anything that moves (leaves, sand/rocks kicked up by a shoe, branches from landscaping, birds, mice in a bush). We do mostly positive training, combined with the prong. Our trainer has us trying the headcollar but she hates it so much we have a hard time using it.

Main problem is there are too many things for her to lunge at such that "leave it" might work fine until 2 seconds later when she sees the next leaf and has near taken my arm off in her lunge for it.

She's 1.5 years old, spayed, and has some basic obedience but is not great with distractions around. Food/toy motivated to an extent, but nothing I can feed her beats excitement from "outside world". Ball occasionally works.

Pointers much appreciated!




Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
I don't think clicker training would work in this case either. I do mostly positive training and the prong, which has been pretty positive to, just more control. I have 6 dogs that are not allowed to chase any wildlife or outside creatures. We have now gotten to the point where birds can land within a couple feet if all of them and they ignore them. So far they don't chase birds, ducks, geese, or rabbits. I don't get to many squirrels in the yard but I know they are there because every walnut they buried my dogs unburied They are even good with turtles and horses. Toads are an issue, they keep finding those and I keep saving the toads. Just the other night my oldest female non GSD found a toad, picked if up and laid down with it. When she moved she picked him up and brought it with wherever she went and she didn't kill it(she did this for about a half hour) I always grab the toads and let the dogs smell them and to be nice, I don't want them eating them
06-30-2014 01:44 AM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
Chip18...

Oh...I think you took my critique incorrectly. My point was...the average person with a raging pulling beast at the end of the leash most likely will never get the same result that quickly as the video displayed by simply attaching a prong collar to their dog. I agree with your premise that one needs to understand the mentality behind any of these tools such as a prong collar as well as a proper application.
No problem, your assessment is accurate! It's not really a how to as much as it is a "this is what it should like" video!

If it does nothing else, it shows folks, yanking and cranking with a prong is not the way to go!



Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
This much I do know from experience....and this is a huge benefit most knowledgeable trainers have when dealing with someone else's dog....a trainer steps into a situation as an unknown entity....the owner and their failings ( lack of control etc. are already well known by the dog and acts accordingly ( poor behavior in this case ). The trainer however introduces themselves from the very first moment in an entirely different light than the struggling owner...the trainer exudes a level of calm authority in a manner which the dog many times submits to in a sense or at least has the dog "off balance". This gives the trainer a huge upper hand...and rightfully so...any trainer worth their salt knows the value of setting the stage properly. I have seen trainers take a "problem" dog and within minutes has the dog acting completely differently than the "problem" dog the owner knows....and it's always an epiphany of sorts to the owner..." How did you do that?"...I think you know exactly what I am suggesting.
Wow thank you for that!!! Those were thoughts bouncing around in my head for months!

Thanks to Sheppardmom, I was able to start working with Boxers and Buddies! One of the first dogs I walked, I was told how horrible he was on leash! He's a puller, bad on leash etc, etc!

Needless to say with me...that did not happen! Yep he has work to do but I would not have described him as a puller! Stop and go occasional, Tsss and a finger poke or two,no biggie. It was a very pleasant walk!

Passed him along at the end of the day...and off he goes, dragging his foster behind him!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
I would still assert, even if an owner mostly understood the application of a prong collar, they would not turn their raging pulling dog into a civil docile leash walking pooch near as quickly as the trainer will....the reason is simply, the owner even using the proper techniques STILL needs to impress upon the dog that the old sheriff has been replaced by this all new and improved sheriff....once that has been successfully ingrained into the dog....life gets easy. The trainer never has to go through this transformation because they are smart enough to start off with proper command and control, leaving the dog with little if any options. I truly believe the old saying regarding " lead or be led"....and a dog is a wonderful example of this mentality.
SuperG
Again no disagreement here! If you do your job right the first time, a lot of problems just never appear!

I fully expected problems with my "people aggressive" GSD with his history of going after my BullMastiff/APBT/Lab mix, inter pack aggression! So I was expecting a dog reactive dog!

I did the 'Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" for people did the same with dogs (ignore and move on) and as a result the dog reactive thing never happened! He learned...don't act like a fool around people or other dogs!

My goal is to train with a flat collar and leash if I have to resort to "tools," I've done something wrong??

The "loose leash video" is something anyone can do! And I have heard from members on the Boxer that it worked out just fine for them! Sometimes simple is the way to go!
06-30-2014 12:16 AM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
I just referred to the other video because it actually explains the concepts and shows a dog going through the learning process. There isn't much for a viewer to learn if the dog automatically behaves. I think it's a better learning tool.

David Winners
Tyler Muto explains things in detail no doubt! I had seen that video but did not get it the first time, then I saw it again and listened more carefully!

A dog already use to a prong! A much tougher case! Do it wrong and your work load doubles!

My "guy" makes it look like magic! If I ever have need of a prong in the future, that's what I want my use of it to look like!

Now folks know!
06-29-2014 09:26 PM
Mary Beth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel13 View Post
I use an easy walk harness on my biggest fella. He was a very bad for pulling on the lead and this harness has worked wonders.

I am not a fan of the prong collars as the dog gets used to the feeling after a while and then begin pulling all over again. The easy walk harness causes the dog to be pulled towards you when he pulls forward.

Its worked wonders with my boy!
Agree with Axel! I use a harness -Walk In Sync Walk In Sync - The Easiest and Most Humane Way to Walk and Train Your Dog - Home I learned how to properly use it from the training videos that came with it. My Sting was the same as the op's dog -rabbits, squirrels, he went after.
06-29-2014 06:26 PM
SuperG Chip18...

Oh...I think you took my critique incorrectly. My point was...the average person with a raging pulling beast at the end of the leash most likely will never get the same result that quickly as the video displayed by simply attaching a prong collar to their dog. I agree with your premise that one needs to understand the mentality behind any of these tools such as a prong collar as well as a proper application.

This much I do know from experience....and this is a huge benefit most knowledgeable trainers have when dealing with someone else's dog....a trainer steps into a situation as an unknown entity....the owner and their failings ( lack of control etc. are already well known by the dog and acts accordingly ( poor behavior in this case ). The trainer however introduces themselves from the very first moment in an entirely different light than the struggling owner...the trainer exudes a level of calm authority in a manner which the dog many times submits to in a sense or at least has the dog "off balance". This gives the trainer a huge upper hand...and rightfully so...any trainer worth their salt knows the value of setting the stage properly. I have seen trainers take a "problem" dog and within minutes has the dog acting completely differently than the "problem" dog the owner knows....and it's always an epiphany of sorts to the owner..." How did you do that?"...I think you know exactly what I am suggesting.

I would still assert, even if an owner mostly understood the application of a prong collar, they would not turn their raging pulling dog into a civil docile leash walking pooch near as quickly as the trainer will....the reason is simply, the owner even using the proper techniques STILL needs to impress upon the dog that the old sheriff has been replaced by this all new and improved sheriff....once that has been successfully ingrained into the dog....life gets easy. The trainer never has to go through this transformation because they are smart enough to start off with proper command and control, leaving the dog with little if any options. I truly believe the old saying regarding " lead or be led"....and a dog is a wonderful example of this mentality.

SuperG
06-29-2014 04:29 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
LOL, so basically the "criticism" is...it "can't" be that easy! Most likely not! But nonetheless when it's done correctly...that is what it would like!

Tylor Muto likes to explain things and TheGoodTraining guy doesn't! It's not a my Pro can beat your Pro debate!

Some "people" are simply more capable of dealing with dogs than others! "Most" folks using a prong don't realize that the "proper" use of a prong collar is a "skill" that they have to acquire! Learn to use the tool first, then train your dog! They just want to "train' there dog!


Anybody can do the "loose leash training video" using the prong takes "skill!"

For "me" it's pretty simple if you have a prong collar on your dog and your still, yanking and cranking...your doing it wrong!
I just referred to the other video because it actually explains the concepts and shows a dog going through the learning process. There isn't much for a viewer to learn if the dog automatically behaves. I think it's a better learning tool.

David Winners
06-29-2014 04:07 PM
eddie1976E I love all these videos, trying to learn the "proper" use of the tool. I will be getting the tool soon and want to make sure I don't screw things up.
06-29-2014 03:42 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
Okay, that video...before and after is a bit optimistic....the pit transformed into a non-puller the instant the prong was on....nary a correction...or the most subtle of corrections. The dog never forged once compared to the flat collar walk. Maybe a tight coat compared to the coat of a GSD makes a huge difference?? I have seen too many other examples of a pulling dog put on a prong which didn't yield these type of immediate results. The video almost paints the picture that the simple application of a prong makes a dog walk in the proper spot without a single correction.

I'm sure it happens but I'd be surprised if this video depicts the norm.

SuperG
LOL, so basically the "criticism" is...it "can't" be that easy! Most likely not! But nonetheless when it's done correctly...that is what it would like!

Tylor Muto likes to explain things and TheGoodTraining guy doesn't! It's not a my Pro can beat your Pro debate!

Some "people" are simply more capable of dealing with dogs than others! "Most" folks using a prong don't realize that the "proper" use of a prong collar is a "skill" that they have to acquire! Learn to use the tool first, then train your dog! They just want to "train' there dog!


Anybody can do the "loose leash training video" using the prong takes "skill!"

For "me" it's pretty simple if you have a prong collar on your dog and your still, yanking and cranking...your doing it wrong!
06-29-2014 01:04 PM
dogfaeries
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
You bet! I think leash pressure is a very useful way to communicate with a dog.

David Winners
Well, guess what I'll be trying out later today...
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