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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-15-2014 12:38 PM
Twyla Some links to visit and read while you are saving for a trainer:

Prong Collar Info

The Canine Language | Life With Dogs

https://www.youtube.com/user/tab289

Dog Resources | Best Friends Animal Society

Patricia McConnell PH.D. | McConnell Publishing Inc.

BowWowFlix.com: Dog DVD Rentals | Dog Training Dvd | Dog Dvds | Rent Dog Videos Great DVD rental service similar to what Netflix used to be

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...-favorite.html

Again, this isn't to replace a trainer, but in the interim.

A trick Woolf's trainer had me to do to work on my timing: using a tennis ball, let it drop as it hits the floor, mark the hit at the same time with yes. Once that was consistent, toss it up and let it hit the floor and mark at the hit. Sounds easy doesn't it?
06-15-2014 12:35 PM
Aviorwolf Trplhazrd, first of all, it's apparent how hard you're trying to do the right thing, and I believe that with the proper resources your family can get this worked out. I also don't think anyone meant to flame.
The video was helpful, and I share my first impression with Bob, Wolfy, and several others. When I saw the dog at the end of the rope and your son jumping around just out of her reach, my first heart-response was "they're teasing her!" I know that was not the intention.
I have raised many puppies and currently have a 5 month old pup who is a real handful. But despite his challenges, I try to see him as a diamond in the rough, which he is. And I bet Syn is, too. Hang in there and pursue the best help you can, given the financial challenges, to which I can totally relate.
06-15-2014 12:30 PM
middleofnowhere My take on this may not be helpful at all - What I see as a novice family with a limited budget (can't afford to buy a dog and can't afford to seek the help they need with the dog) ended up with a pup who has discovered how to get a lot of fun out of the family.

Whether the dog dislikes the smell of something in the house (perhaps new carpet? perhaps an appliance that isn't working just right?) or just really loves outdoors, the dog has put himself in charge. It appears the pup has the family buffaloed. And unfortunately, this may be fatal for the pup.

It's going to be very difficult to get this solved via the internet rather than getting help from someone in person who can help figure it out. It's so hard to say whether this is just a pup with a lot of drive and a total PIA or whether it is a dog that would be beyond tough for most of us or a dog that just isn't "right." I can't tell from the internet and I don't think anyone else here can either.

One caveat with the recommendation for corrections - sometimes this works the way you want, sometimes it just ramps the dog up more. (Some dogs like a fight - so you just don't engage in the fight.)

One hope - sometimes the light just goes off in their puppy brain - usually every 6 months.

I'm wishing the family and the pup the best for this.
06-15-2014 08:39 AM
Blanketback I agree that there's nothing wrong with using a prong collar (I have one too) but it's not going to help you very much if you don't know what to correct for, or know when to correct - because the timing has to be perfect for the dog to understand when she's doing something wrong. I honestly don't think OP has enough experience to make this a seamless transition from a somewhat wild to a well mannered puppy. Spending some money on a trainer now seems like the best solution to me, so that the puppy can mature with the correct boundaries in place, with the family all on one page in terms of what she's allowed to get away with, and using identical phrases for commands.
06-15-2014 07:58 AM
JakodaCD OA I didn't really see anyone flaming you, and hope if you do, just ignore, and take the advice , use what you can.

I think you will see a HUGE difference if you put a prong on her (and she will not hurt herself believe me, I've used one for training and they do not hurt themselves , use it correctly and it's 'self correcting'.)

Put her on a leash, and first walk her with it, let her get used to the 'self correction' if she pulls. I think you'll see a HUGE difference. Don't repeat commands..Start at the beginning,,have her sit, if she doesn't, do a quick pull/snap with the leash, work on simple basic commands like 'sit'..always TREAT her for doing GOOD.

Be on top of the 'game', expect the unexpected, you don't need to keep a tight hold on the leash with a prong, but be ready to 'correct' for jumping or even "thinking" of jumping, ..

You need to start over with your basics, because he is running 'amok', and now has to learn self control, what "is" and "is not" acceptable..Everybody has to be on board and keep to the plan.
06-15-2014 07:53 AM
Blanketback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trplhazrd View Post
We are willing to do everything we can to try to fix what we've messed up, but we don't know how we messed up in the first place and can't afford a trainer or behaviorist.
That video was very helpful, to show us all what's going on, so we can point out where you've unintentionally messed up. As others have already mentioned, your children are getting the puppy too riled up and excited, and teasing her - plus she's been taught bad habits. By allowing the puppy to latch onto your pant legs, you've accidentally encouraged some pretty painful games - encouraging a tug toy instead would be the way to go. It's definitely not too late to change things.

IMO, you really need to get a decent trainer. Not so much because of the puppy, but because it's obvious that your family needs help to understand how to interact with your puppy in a healthy way. I'm not flaming you at all, and it's not an insult either - your family seems very nice and if you'd adopted a lab instead then you might have had an easier time of it, lol. My neighbor's lab was much easier to raise with the children than my GSD would have been! Whenever I had my puppy over to play with theirs, I had to be very careful with how the children interacted - because the breeds do bring different things to the table. You're not doing anything that an average family wouldn't do with their puppy, it's just that you're over your heads now with the behavior that's getting out of hand.

Please think about ways to shave some funds off the budget so that you can afford outside help. Your puppy is a wonderful little gal and deserves this. Now would be the time to do it. Good luck
06-15-2014 07:33 AM
my boy diesel one word could sum up your issues

redirection

to the rope tug toys

and discipline meaning teach her not punish

and control her space and movement with leash and appropriate prong
06-15-2014 03:34 AM
Bob_McBob Trplhzrd, nobody is trying to be hurtful. You obviously realize there are some major issues with how you are training your dog, and asking for advice is also inviting potentially harsh criticism. Everyone wants the best possible outcome for you and your dog. It would be really helpful if you could post a new video showing you interacting with your dog, shot by someone else, with no soundtrack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
Do you still use a laser light/flash light with the dog? Does the dog pounce on you like she was doing with the laser or flash light in the video? When a dog is biting you, the idea behind having a toy in your hand is not to squeak it and aggravate the dog but to put it in her mouth in place of what she is biting.
Already answered in the OP's latest post. There was no laser.
06-15-2014 02:58 AM
llombardo I see a frustrated dog that is trying to communicate with you. Do you still use a laser light/flash light with the dog? Does the dog pounce on you like she was doing with the laser or flash light in the video? When a dog is biting you, the idea behind having a toy in your hand is not to squeak it and aggravate the dog but to put it in her mouth in place of what she is biting.
06-15-2014 02:31 AM
Trplhazrd
Replies

Well, there's the flaming I expected after my first book...

Please understand that I KNOW we're messing this up, we just can't seem to grasp how to fix it, which is why I spoke to my husband about re-homing her in the first place. NOT BECAUSE OF THE PUPPY, BECAUSE OF US. We are willing to do everything we can to try to fix what we've messed up, but we don't know how we messed up in the first place and can't afford a trainer or behaviorist.

THAT'S why I came here and posted in as much detail as I possibly could without anyone actually being here to see on a daily basis what we're doing, have tried, how we react, etc..

I am not angry or offended. I am frustrated at myself for not being able to fix US.

JakodaCD OA:
"I do NOT see a puppy being intentionally nasty aggressive,,he knows who he can get away with stuff with, and he's doing it because again, he "can".."

>> Yes! This!! My problem is I don't know how to stop it.

"Obviously what your doing isn't working"

>> THIS is an understatement and the exact reason I'm here.

Bob_McBob::
"You have this completely backwards. Your reason for not using the prong is actually the reason for using a prong. Many dogs will choke themselves to the point of permanent physical damage with a flat or choke collar. The prong applies pressure evenly on the neck and in such a way that it's uncomfortable for the dog to pull hard. It's much safer for the dog and promotes better behaviour."

>> Through you guys and gals, I'm learning this difference and have started to look into the prong collar, though I'm still scared she'll hurt herself with it.

"Why is your son back tying the dog and spraying him with a hose? All the marks on your body look like over the top land shark type behavior with very poor bite inhibition."

>> My son didn't tie her back, I did when she bit me, He came out to try to calm her down because of whatever it is that "I" did that caused this. I agree on the land sharking behavior and poor bite inhibition, I just don't know how to fix it. Again, this is why I'm here.

"It would probably be a lot more helpful if you posted a video showing your personal interaction with the dog taken by another member of your family, without a soundtrack."

>> I am working on this. (you didn't like my song *gasp* <kidding>!!)

ZoeD1217::
"What's up with circling all the bruises?"

>> Those were pics for the veterinarian, taken the way she asked me to so she could consult with a behaviorist at a local college that I can't afford to hire.

"I have 5 kids and I don't let any of them play with our puppy like that. They can tug or throw a ball. No "rough housing" with the puppy. They get plenty of quality time with Zoe inside in a calm environment. No taunting and no teasing. Both kids and dog have strict rules and anyone who doesn't want to listen comes inside when it comes to being in the yard together. "

>> Yes, this is how things are run around here now too. Except, as we're still working on the inside calm, it is outside.

my boy diesel:
This one hurt a bit, but is what I expected and I appreciate you being honest.

"find someone to teach you because puppy and dog 101 is beyond you and you need to go back and learn and then teach the puppy Puppy 101 then move on to dog 101 there are folks with dog sense and this family is lacking because she is a mess due to your mistakes"

>> Ouch, but yes.

"wondering if it was noted somewhere along the way where you are located?"

>> Yes, in my previous answer to you.

Twyla:

"I gotta say this first. I saw at the beginning of the video what looked like flashlight/lazer play."

>> It was an ice cube. We do know better than to use lasers or lights.

"I agree with Diane, this is a pup having fun - painful for you but he is having a ball - because he can."

>> Yes she is having a blast, and from these responses, we need to learn how to set the 'right' consequences.

Ok all answered, I hope I didn't piss anyone off too badly. I will keep trying to get a video of me with her specifically (without the sound track), Will hold off on the ecollar ( I DID NOT know this was a shock collar until I started looking at them, every one I had seen before this suggested it was a vibration, not shock!), look more into the prong collar (after I do a ton of research on how to use one), and continue to try squirreling away money for a trainer (for me) while I keep scouring these forums and trying to implement the things suggested all over. Going focus more on consequences now instead of bite inhibition, because that's what you guys see. She's too smart not to know how to be gentle we just haven't enforced it the right way I guess.

Last note: In that reply where I put the video I stated that we knew mistakes were made and we have fixed many of them. A few things I noticed you all saw (and we did too) was the the kids got her riled up instead of wearing her out by running with her, my son spraying her with the hose (that was suggested by the trainer whom I will be telling EVERYONE never to use), and the lack of consequences. I have to point out that:

1. These videos were two months ago when we first started to realize we were messing up.
2. The kids are not allowed to let her chase them anymore, though they can chase her in a constructive game of soccer where she is focused on the ball and if she gets too excited they are to stop and calm her down.
3. She does not get tied out or sprayed with the hose. period.
4. There are consequences in place, though from the responses I see I need to get video of those so you all can tell me which ones are counter productive and which ones to keep or where to change them. I just don't have video of them to show you yet. I'm working on it.

Thank you for the help and honesty (even the hurtful stuff) as we hope it will make us better puppy owners for our amazing puppy!
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