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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-01-2014 12:18 PM
Steve Strom
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie1976E View Post
Thanks to all. I trained him by luring first, then I motions down and have worked the "down" verbal command. I know that he knows it, he does it 80% of the time...if I have a treat in my hand it goes to 100%. He is more reliable with the motion, then just the verbal, I'm working on getting him to do it just on verbal. I have been working with him since he was 9 weeks old. He has come a long way, and I really think he is just deciding he doesn't want to down sometimes. He has started to do that with other commands too. Like "come"...He was 100% on come a few weeks ago, even while playing with other dogs...he would be by my side as soon as I called him. Now, even on the deck, he doesn't want to come. So, I'm going back to basics with treats on every come, I had been phasing them out slowly. But I guess it wasn't slow enough.

On a brighter note, I was able to train him to touch my palm with his nose in about 10 minutes.
I'm sure he's come a long way Eddie, but be patient. He doesn't KNOW anything yet. Read what you posted. You're still using the treat, physical lure, and the verbal. I bet without realizing it you are cueing him with your body language or posture. When any of those changes in his eye's, he's not sure what you want.

Recall is going to be up and down a little bit. As he gets older he discovers different things are more interesting then they were yesterday. Be consistent and patient.
06-01-2014 12:03 PM
eddie1976E
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
I was being a smart ass...velcro on the dog's underside and velcro on a mat...he'll stay down.

I know I put a premium on the down/stay and it does require patience at first ...on both parties...you and the dog. I have been told that putting a dog in a "down" could be more difficult for some dogs than others as the dog takes a submissive position in the "down"...it sounds reasonable but not sure if it is true.

You have some good advice so far....dog may need a consequence which would make it more apt to follow your suggestion.

You might also make it more "fun" as one poster cited. I did that by incorporating an "up" to a sit position following the "down" and would have the dog go back and forth as soon as the dog hit the dirt...then it was "up" ..as soon as the dog was up...then "down"...then some rewards and praise...and then started the intervals between down and sit to become longer and longer....as soon I thought the pup was getting bored...we'd move on. Get some hand signals going as well....always seemed my dogs responded better to a hand signal than a voice command.

SuperG
Thanks! Now I get it. I do the sit to down, back up, etc. I they they are called dog push ups. I have started (just now) giving him the tug toy as a reward and he seems to like it and work for it as much if not more than treats.
06-01-2014 11:18 AM
SuperG
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie1976E View Post
I don't understand. Do you mean I'm creating a velcro dog?

Thanks
I was being a smart ass...velcro on the dog's underside and velcro on a mat...he'll stay down.

I know I put a premium on the down/stay and it does require patience at first ...on both parties...you and the dog. I have been told that putting a dog in a "down" could be more difficult for some dogs than others as the dog takes a submissive position in the "down"...it sounds reasonable but not sure if it is true.

You have some good advice so far....dog may need a consequence which would make it more apt to follow your suggestion.

You might also make it more "fun" as one poster cited. I did that by incorporating an "up" to a sit position following the "down" and would have the dog go back and forth as soon as the dog hit the dirt...then it was "up" ..as soon as the dog was up...then "down"...then some rewards and praise...and then started the intervals between down and sit to become longer and longer....as soon I thought the pup was getting bored...we'd move on. Get some hand signals going as well....always seemed my dogs responded better to a hand signal than a voice command.

SuperG
06-01-2014 10:02 AM
eddie1976E
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
Velcro ....

SuperG
I don't understand. Do you mean I'm creating a velcro dog?

Thanks
06-01-2014 09:52 AM
SuperG Velcro ....

SuperG
06-01-2014 09:49 AM
eddie1976E Thanks to all. I trained him by luring first, then I motions down and have worked the "down" verbal command. I know that he knows it, he does it 80% of the time...if I have a treat in my hand it goes to 100%. He is more reliable with the motion, then just the verbal, I'm working on getting him to do it just on verbal. I have been working with him since he was 9 weeks old. He has come a long way, and I really think he is just deciding he doesn't want to down sometimes. He has started to do that with other commands too. Like "come"...He was 100% on come a few weeks ago, even while playing with other dogs...he would be by my side as soon as I called him. Now, even on the deck, he doesn't want to come. So, I'm going back to basics with treats on every come, I had been phasing them out slowly. But I guess it wasn't slow enough.

On a brighter note, I was able to train him to touch my palm with his nose in about 10 minutes.
05-31-2014 02:59 PM
warpwr Down after a heel position sit is accomplished by gently tugging forward on the leash with your right hand while holding your left hand palm down in the puppy's face and saying down. Eventually just the command will work and you will be able to do moving downs and out-of-sight downs.
Sometimes it is necessary in the beginning to gently pull out the front legs toward the front until they get the idea. It may be even necessary to push down at the shoulders a bit.
Once there they shouldn't get up until you release them so you need a release word too such as 'take-a-break'. Never use the word OK because it comes up too often during regular conversations and you don't want to release your dog accidentally.

For a young puppy, you can get them into a down with a treat from a sit by luring them from their nose to between their front feet and saying down.

Zazzle at puppy obedience level one learning down, she's seven months old now.
05-31-2014 01:15 PM
Steve Strom Lol, at 16wks he doesn't 'know' anything. Be patient and let him be a puppy.
05-31-2014 01:07 PM
mspiker03 +1 to what Cassidy's Mom said. I highly doubt at 16 weeks old the pup knows and has generalized the command well enough to start adding corrections. I also think it is too early to be proofing with an ecollar (and yes, I use them, and am not against them).
05-31-2014 12:13 PM
Cassidy's Mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
this is how I was taught to do 'downs', and it's always worked for me..in fact my 11 wk old has them down pretty good.

Get a yummy treat put it in your closed fist, put it in front of his nose so he can smell it,,bring your closed fist 'down' straight to the floor in front of his nose..do not open your fist, use your command (i use downLOL),,and say nothing,,keep the fist closed, until the dogs butt /front legs hits the floor, pop open your hand...they may paw your hand, nose your hand, whatever,

I also do alot of free shaping, when the dog goes into a down, without me asking, maybe just lays down, I reward for that "good down".
I do what Diane does. I only lure with a treat for as long as I absolutely have to, then I use the hand motion without food, and treat from the other hand. Once the puppy is following the hand into a down, I add the command right before. I usually only lure for one or two brief training sessions before the puppy will follow an empty hand, they figure it out pretty quickly.

And I do tons of "capturing" behaviors - free shaping, as Diane mentions. Puppy lays down, I click and toss a treat. Puppy gets up to get it, I wait for it to lay down again, click and treat. Rinse, repeat. Puppies usually like this game, and make the connection between laying down and being rewarded for it really fast. Again, I wait until puppy is freely offering downs, and then I add the cue right beforehand, then click/treat.

Down is my strongest default behavior, even more so than sit, and also with eye contact. I require that for so many things as part of daily life from a very young age that my dogs know that the way to ask for something (throw the ball? give them the bully stick I'm holding? release them to eat from the bowl I've already set on the floor? go outside? come inside?) is to offer a default behavior such as sit or down with eye contact. So by the time I actually TELL them to do it, they generally don't hesitate, they do it. That means I rarely need to force them to do anything, and I rarely need to correct them for not doing so either. The more you can make your dog WANT to comply, the less you'll have to MAKE them comply.
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