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Thread: Will IPO trained dogs bite without sleeve? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-22-2014 08:03 AM
cliffson1 I agree it is based on the dog, and somewhat to lesser degree on the training.
05-22-2014 12:03 AM
Packen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman1stclass View Post
If the answer is no, how hard is it to switch over to I guess personal protection. Are hidden sleeves ever used in IPO training and why can't you just mix the two (IPO/PP).
The answer is based on the dog, some have ZERO hesitation in engaging without equipment some will run off the field if equipment is removed and challenged.
05-21-2014 11:13 PM
mycobraracr
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
In a thin suit though... Strong dog can crack bigger bones with the molars
Maybe, I've caught a dog that have crushed my hard sleeve to the point of not being able to use again in an ALM trial suit with a leather gauntlet under.
05-21-2014 10:54 PM
hunterisgreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
Haha Yup! You got it.

It's the angle that your arm is presented to the dog. As you know, the forearm is two bones. If you present with the bones up and down then there is a gap that the dog can crush breaking one or both. If the bones are parallel to the ground(think bite bar angle in sleeve) the there is no "air" gap to be able to compress the bones. I will try and find a few pictures. From my hand angle you can tell my forearm angle.
In a thin suit though... Strong dog can crack bigger bones with the molars
05-21-2014 10:44 PM
mycobraracr
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
What is the technique? Don't get molars on your ulna? Lol
Haha Yup! You got it.

It's the angle that your arm is presented to the dog. As you know, the forearm is two bones. If you present with the bones up and down then there is a gap that the dog can crush breaking one or both. If the bones are parallel to the ground(think bite bar angle in sleeve) the there is no "air" gap to be able to compress the bones. I will try and find a few pictures. From my hand angle you can tell my forearm angle.
05-21-2014 10:37 PM
hunterisgreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
The SDA forearm suit bites do hurt. There is a technique to it to keep from breaking bones. Not saying it doesn't hurt, but no breaks. I have caught some VERY hard biting dogs and my arms are still intact. Also in SDA the dog is allowed to bite forearm or bicep/tricep in the suit. That being said, my puppies are bicep dogs on the suit. If a sleeve is presented, they will take that.
What is the technique? Don't get molars on your ulna? Lol
05-21-2014 10:32 PM
mycobraracr
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
And everytime I see that in SDA it makes me cringe. There isn't much padding in a suit sleeve. I have scars on my bicep from suit bites. There is no way on earth I'm taking a forearm bite in my suit. Folks don't realize how hard a dog can bite, just the pressure... My male's grand sire was notorious for breaking forearms on the street ... I train mine to target bicep/armpit from the front, or tricep from the rear... so for the OP, you can see a dog can be trained "if sleeve present, bite sleeve. If jacket, bite armpit." etc. A helper failed to get a pillow out quickly with Katya and took a thigh bite from her in scratch pants... and we've never done a single leg bite... so some dogs, are getting their bite come **** or high water.

The SDA forearm suit bites do hurt. There is a technique to it to keep from breaking bones. Not saying it doesn't hurt, but no breaks. I have caught some VERY hard biting dogs and my arms are still intact. Also in SDA the dog is allowed to bite forearm or bicep/tricep in the suit. That being said, my puppies are bicep dogs on the suit. If a sleeve is presented, they will take that.
05-21-2014 10:15 PM
hunterisgreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I agree and also train the armpit or collar bone (prefer armpit but sometimes if the dog is really jacked he wants to get nearer the juggular, lol), but having done so much foundation in IPO and IPO first, the dog basically bites what is presented. If nothing, like more of a passive bite where the helper is provoking the dog with his overall presence or veeeery subtle movements, dog will bite the target I want. If he raises and arm or "presents" it though, the dog bites the arm. I do feel kinda bad but the decoys seem to think it's cool to come away all bruised and punctured through the suit.
Collar bone? Never gonna work your dog... Too close to my neck lol. Never heard of collar bone.

With the suit work I *only* allow bicep/pit bites... Anywhere else is immediate out. More for safety than anything else.
05-21-2014 10:08 PM
Liesje
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
And everytime I see that in SDA it makes me cringe. There isn't much padding in a suit sleeve. I have scars on my bicep from suit bites. There is no way on earth I'm taking a forearm bite in my suit. Folks don't realize how hard a dog can bite, just the pressure... My male's grand sire was notorious for breaking forearms on the street ... I train mine to target bicep/armpit from the front, or tricep from the rear... so for the OP, you can see a dog can be trained "if sleeve present, bite sleeve. If jacket, bite armpit." etc.
I agree and also train the armpit or collar bone (prefer armpit but sometimes if the dog is really jacked he wants to get nearer the juggular, lol), but having done so much foundation in IPO and IPO first, the dog basically bites what is presented. If nothing, like more of a passive bite where the helper is provoking the dog with his overall presence or veeeery subtle movements, dog will bite the target I want. If he raises and arm or "presents" it though, the dog bites the arm. I do feel kinda bad but the decoys seem to think it's cool to come away all bruised and punctured through the suit.
05-21-2014 08:11 PM
bill It does depend on the dog I.m.o. I have a west German show line they say are not much anymore well I'm sure that's probably true about most" but not all" same with any sport dog most live for one thing the sleeve" but not all" their are the few that would take it to you if they thought you were a threat" but without a sleeve they might have to be taught. I think good dogs come from all lines and any shepherd with good balance" that's what they are supposed to be.
Can do protection work' and be good" if trained right! J.m.o. Bill

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