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Thread: Breeding Costs breakdown Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-29-2014 01:23 PM
carmspack currently I have three dogs of my breeding that are 12 , one will be 13 first days of Nov .
One has had 2 litters . One has had no litters -- I left it too long. I was too secure in the fact that I had her genetics available within the program.
The male , two litters?
All strategically planned litters, eliminating experimentation and need for numbers.
I would not ever deny them anything . They are guaranteed a good life . If one had an eye to the bottom line they would be gone , leave a place open for something else.
04-29-2014 12:30 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wild View Post
Martemchik, if you think a lot of these things are "extreme" and there are perfectly good breeders who do things a whole lot more easily and cheaply I think you might want to also look into their purposes for breeding. Some breed for a good "end product", pups that grow to be successful in specific endeavors. Some breed for the future and because they have plans and goals for their breeding program and where they want to get that goes far beyond just producing good dogs for themselves and others to work. There is a big difference between the two, and the work involved. Just as it is easier to find and buy a good dog than it is a good dog who is also a good breeding dog, it is easier to breed good dogs than it is good dogs who carry specific traits, fit into your overall plan, and who in turn will continue to produce generation after generation of good dogs.
No, I'm in agreement with you...but I think it has a lot to do with what Lisa mentioned...standards. And yes, importing dogs, AI, finding the perfect 4-4 linebreeding with the right 5-5 linebreeding in some ways can be considered ďextreme.Ē I understand breeding for the future, but Iíve seen breeders recommended on this forum, by knowledgeable people, that donít have the type of standards that you or Carmen are speaking of currently. They donít go to these extremes, they breed for the future, but I highly doubt that many hours are spent doing research on the perfect stud. Too often I see the stud being within an hour drive of the breeder and the mix works well, itís good for the future, but you canít tell me itís just a coincidence or amazing luck that ďthe perfect studĒ is that close to the breeder.

There are breeders like that, and they produce wonderful dogs, very successful dogs, that people in all venues are extremely happy with and theyíre making money. I think itís extremely rational to sayÖIím looking for a 4-4 and a 5-5 on such and such dogs, that is available to me if I spend thousands of dollars to travel to the other side of the world and get it doneÖbut thereís a dog that would give me a 4-4 on the same dogs, and a 5-5 on a close relative to the other dog within 3 hours or less and Iíll just go to that stud instead.
04-29-2014 12:22 PM
Chris Wild Another aspect that some of the breeders have alluded too but not outright discussed that is both a direct cost as well as an emotional upset are wash outs.

If someone purchases a dog for a pet, or even to be highly competitive in any given sport, but it comes back OFA mild, or develops a minor health issue like allergies or digestive sensitivity, or has some temperament quirks that they don't like but can manage, or develops reproductive problems, or any number of things that would mean it isn't a good candidate for breeding but is just fine for their desired activity, it doesn't usually matter or have any large impact on their enjoyment of the dog or ability to reach their goals.

There are any number of things that would be very minor to those people, may not even be a blip on their radar, that would cause a dog intended for breeding to wash out. Putting the breeder in the situation of having to decide between placing the dog elsewhere to make room for another dog to try again at having a viable dog for breeding or keeping the dog that they've grown attached to and possibly now having a house full of dogs that they love but nothing to breed. Rarely can the breeder recoup the costs put into the wash out, so there is money lost as well as a huge emotional drain.

Of course, there are plenty of breeders who would still just go ahead and breed it anyway because they want to recoup some of those costs, but that's another matter.
04-29-2014 12:20 PM
carmspack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wild View Post
Martemchik, if you think a lot of these things are "extreme" and there are perfectly good breeders who do things a whole lot more easily and cheaply I think you might want to also look into their purposes for breeding. Some breed for a good "end product", pups that grow to be successful in specific endeavors. Some breed for the future and because they have plans and goals for their breeding program and where they want to get that goes far beyond just producing good dogs for themselves and others to work. There is a big difference between the two, and the work involved. Just as it is easier to find and buy a good dog than it is a good dog who is also a good breeding dog, it is easier to breed good dogs than it is good dogs who carry specific traits, fit into your overall plan, and who in turn will continue to produce generation after generation of good dogs.

Exactly.
04-29-2014 12:18 PM
carmspack "Since I love research I would still have all of my books, the WinSIS, etc. "

you and me both -- but other's not so much ---

knowledge is power --
__________________
04-29-2014 12:16 PM
Chris Wild Martemchik, if you think a lot of these things are "extreme" and there are perfectly good breeders who do things a whole lot more easily and cheaply I think you might want to also look into their purposes for breeding. Some breed for a good "end product", pups that grow to be successful in specific endeavors. Some breed for the future and because they have plans and goals for their breeding program and where they want to get that goes far beyond just producing good dogs for themselves and others to work. There is a big difference between the two, and the work involved. Just as it is easier to find and buy a good dog than it is a good dog who is also a good breeding dog, it is easier to breed good dogs than it is good dogs who carry specific traits, fit into your overall plan, and who in turn will continue to produce generation after generation of good dogs.
04-29-2014 12:15 PM
carmspack this "
And similar experience with importing my Pike daughter from Germany - but ended up with 2 dwarf pups in her only litter....$10 grand down the drain...."
and this "I could add on how many years it took me to find a foundation bitch, puppies bought that didn't work out. It gets sort of scary"

to my last post I had added thoughts similar to this , and then deleted them to avoid antagonism.

I brought in a female from abroad . Cost. I raised her , x rayed her hips and elbows . Liked her very much and looked forward to what she might contribute . Bred her . Because I only do one litter per year or less , that means that time was focused on her and her litter . She had a litter and then turned out to be a horrible mother. No mothering skills whatsoever. So not only was there a financial deficit directly from her litter , there was no other litter in the works at all , AND there is the emotional drain --- not easy . The trauma was the hardest to take .
She was never bred again.
Later on get excited about another female . Buy her , breed her to a male prior to import , don't keep her , don't keep any of the pups. They were not MY type of dog . Very hyper , too easily stimulated.
Buy a gorgeous female from abroad , have her bred "there" prior to import . Loved this female , wish I had her from a pup.
She has her litter , a large litter , with some promising pups.
Don't get any co-operation in making registration of the pups possible . No pups registered . Refund on all pups .
She was never bred again (her registration paper work went through).
A year later she passes away from a cancer of the jaw bone .
Another female -- killer dog-aggressive . NOT bred -

This is over a time span of 15 years or so .
04-29-2014 12:11 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
There are breeders out there making money and some are even "doing it right" as far as titled/surveyed stock. They hope to get 1 or 2 good pups out of a litter and sell the rest to the pet market for $2500-$3500. I have a friend that breeds her untitled female to good males and gets big litters where most go into pet homes for good money. The pups are in demand and she uses the money to supplement her income. Different standards. I just bite my tongue a lot. She can also get $1500 on top of the puppy price if she puts basic OB on the pups, does some socializing and housebreaks/crate trains them.
The untitled female that has trialed but not passed.
But the dogs have really fluffy coats, with adorable puppies.
04-29-2014 12:04 PM
lhczth
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
Nobody mentioned (I think) the cost of a library , the cost of seminars , the cost of publications / magazines , all things educational.
Since I love research I would still have all of my books, the WinSIS, etc.
04-29-2014 12:03 PM
lhczth There are breeders out there making money and some are even "doing it right" as far as titled/surveyed stock. They hope to get 1 or 2 good pups out of a litter and sell the rest to the pet market for $2500-$3500. I have a friend that breeds her untitled female to good males and gets big litters where most go into pet homes for good money. The pups are in demand and she uses the money to supplement her income. Different standards. I just bite my tongue a lot. She can also get $1500 on top of the puppy price if she puts basic OB on the pups, does some socializing and housebreaks/crate trains them.
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