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Thread: Peer reviewed scientific study on clicker training horses Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-26-2014 05:57 PM
sparra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfair View Post
This is Josh Lyons (John Lyon's son) teaching a horse to load. Note how dangerous this can be and how he teaches the horse with a mild aversive (tap of the dressage whip) but mostly just teaches the horse forward and backing up cues. Then applies it to loading on the trailer. He rewards the horse with pats and praise but mostly lets the horse figure it out *with* boundaries. The horse is not made to feel trapped by being allowed to back off the trailer.

So what's wrong with this? The horse in the video below was loading after 45 minutes of work.

This method worked really well with my skittish OTTB.

Josh Lyons Trailer Loading - YouTube
Nothing wrong with this .......and a method widely used.......
04-26-2014 03:23 PM
glowingtoadfly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sri View Post
Agree with WD. I have used the clicker, not used it ( i feel it cumbersome, managing leash treats and clicker) and started using again. The side effect of the clicker was that it was more calming to my dog. Perhaps because the clicker is a strong symbol of positive things. Praise, treats, ball every single time in the beginning. And then there are jackpots...
And the wonders of free shaping! When I first heard of shaping I scoffed at it. But now that Ive tried it its great to see my dog think and be creative and offer behaviors to figure out what it is i want. Its a great game and immensely tiring for them. In less than 5 mins my dog has learnt to love going to his mat and relaxing there. Now i can take oit the mat anywhere and he wont get off it unless i ask him to. Or walking on the treadmill. I Certainly cant teach everything with it though lots of people have taught a lot of unexpected behaviors with it.

But i can understand that it may not be for all animals or trainers. Gwen, i dont think anyone is trying to push anything into your hands. People are just sharing what works or didnt work for them.


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I love watching my dogs learn to think for themselves and offer behaviors because of the clicker/marker. It is cumbersome, so I attached a clicker to my treat pouch, although for proper mechanics it should probably be in my hand.. It's fun to have a dog who offers a heel and happily gazes up at me at random times in my day...
04-26-2014 03:14 PM
Gwenhwyfair Actually no need to guess why Karen is excited about the study, it's really a rhetorical question she said it in her own words, **First** study, how long has clicker training been around?

I don't recommend clicker training for horses, especially if there are other humane methods which are more effective, safer and faster to boot.

That's my take away from this one study.
04-26-2014 02:30 PM
glowingtoadfly I am definitely not trying to push anything into anyone's hands, or out of them :-) I use marker words a lot more than the clicker, it is just a very helpful tool for my own dog's hand shyness, and I use it to teach new behaviors. I watched Gwen's video, and saw nothing wrong happening...
04-26-2014 02:23 PM
Sri Agree with WD. I have used the clicker, not used it ( i feel it cumbersome, managing leash treats and clicker) and started using again. The side effect of the clicker was that it was more calming to my dog. Perhaps because the clicker is a strong symbol of positive things. Praise, treats, ball every single time in the beginning. And then there are jackpots...
And the wonders of free shaping! When I first heard of shaping I scoffed at it. But now that Ive tried it its great to see my dog think and be creative and offer behaviors to figure out what it is i want. Its a great game and immensely tiring for them. In less than 5 mins my dog has learnt to love going to his mat and relaxing there. Now i can take oit the mat anywhere and he wont get off it unless i ask him to. Or walking on the treadmill. I Certainly cant teach everything with it though lots of people have taught a lot of unexpected behaviors with it.

But i can understand that it may not be for all animals or trainers. Gwen, i dont think anyone is trying to push anything into your hands. People are just sharing what works or didnt work for them.


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04-26-2014 02:19 PM
glowingtoadfly I don't think clicker training horses to load is reinventing the wheel... It's a different approach, but one that is based in sound science. Correct timing is something that is difficult in clicker training and if you are using an aversive. The difference is that when using an aversive, a poorly timed correction leads to useless stress for the animal. Poorly timed clicker or marker training leads to a poorly timed treat.
04-26-2014 01:55 PM
wolfy dog More than a decade ago I discovered clickering and based on the results I started viewing it as the gospel of training and denounced everything else. but after working with several strong willed dogs, and especially my own GSDs as pups, I discovered that some dogs won't let you get away with clicker training alone. So now I always start them with the clicker and go from there.
04-26-2014 01:24 PM
glowingtoadfly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimeju View Post
Maybe Pryor is excited because it is a study of behavior modification "in the field?" The studies on operant conditioning in lab animals have limited application to dog training because none of us live in a Skinner box. Maybe this study helps alleviate those limitations. Just a guess.

I'm pretty sure the journal in question is peer-reviewed.


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I agree. Good guess...
04-26-2014 01:02 PM
Gwenhwyfair This is Josh Lyons (John Lyon's son) teaching a horse to load. Note how dangerous this can be and how he teaches the horse with a mild aversive (tap of the dressage whip) but mostly just teaches the horse forward and backing up cues. Then applies it to loading on the trailer. He rewards the horse with pats and praise but mostly lets the horse figure it out *with* boundaries. The horse is not made to feel trapped by being allowed to back off the trailer.

So what's wrong with this? The horse in the video below was loading after 45 minutes of work.

This method worked really well with my skittish OTTB.

Josh Lyons Trailer Loading - YouTube
04-26-2014 12:45 PM
glowingtoadfly I am just now beginning to research clicker training's history and the science behind it. I started out with my first personally owned dog, Skadi, who came home very hand shy and responded well to a clicker training protocol to teach her to accept being touched. We were instructed by our behaviorist to sit next to her when she was lying on the floor and touch the floor near her paws, and click and treat as we removed the hand. (She had a growly response to being touched, so removing the hand was negatively reinforcing, and she would flinch and look nervous when we touched the floor at first). Slowly, we progressed to clicking and treating and touching her head and feet with the same protocol. We moved at a slow pace and she picked up on this quickly and soon got to the point where she was lying down on the floor when she saw the treat pouch, expecting to work on her hand shyness and looking forward to being touched. She became very relaxed during touching in this way and not so hypervigilant. Now, she will come up to us for petting without treats involved. Sometimes she will still growl, but she has definitely improved. I'm not sure there is a better way than clicker training for this particular purpose.
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