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Thread: Dog attacked my shepherd, need input for several things... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-23-2014 02:20 PM
huntergreen you come here looking for help and disregard most. i would most likely be banned for telling you what i think of your dog park skills, but suspect you won't stick around long.
04-23-2014 08:09 AM
Arlene/Archer
Quote:
Originally Posted by KotaRT View Post
.....

Animal neutral exercises. Dogs/cats/whatever, can run up, bark, do whatever they want to my dog, even jump on him, and he will not move until I tell him to. Since he is on his way to being a service dog, it's important that he doesn't just react to EVERYTHING around him, like just about every other dog does. A service dog should be 100% focused on you at all times (when on the leash of course). When off leash, I of course want him to be a normal dog.

Cheers

OP, I understand this completely. But in your opening post, it was your off leash dog that did the approaching and the possible humping and the other dog pretty much reacted as some unfriendly ( an indeed friendly) dogs are wont to do.

Neutral training to me does not equal putting your dog in situations where social cues are over looked. I have a two-year-old intact male that does 90 minute off lead work in parkland every morning which involves meeting countless dogs, some on lead, some off. At this stage in his life he pretty much takes zero notice of any other dog and is patient with even the most rambunctious puppies who take a notion to blunder up to him. I wouldn't expect an 11 month old to behave like him, but I got him to this stage by training him to focus on me and whatever game I might be involving him in.
As I live in a city, he is expected to be calm around traffic, pedestrians and noise in general and oblivious to dogs snarling and charging behind gates and loose dogs who bark at us. He is because he trusts me (and his temperament and genetics also dictate so), and I have never put him face to face or lay him on another dog- that in my opinion, would undermine his trust in me.
I understand also you want your dog to have down time and just be a dog, but this is where I would introduce my dog to calm stable dogs who you KNOW will not react as the dog in the park did. I pack walk my own dog once or twice a month with a number of dogs, but they all know each other and they all behave well, which in turn builds confidence in the younger dogs. Perhaps you could look into something like that?
I'm am not against dog parks per se, but as others have said, you can't be sure of the other dogs or what level of training they have, so to that end I'd avoid them
Lastly, regardless of training, dogs have a pretty unique language all of their own designed to avoid conflict and to send signals without speech so to speak. Body language can be obvious or it can be subtle, when it progresses to growling the message should be loud and clear. It does all of us, as owners, a great service to be aware of the body language and, yes, social cues, of dogs in general. That way you can manage your dog and avoid trouble as much as possible.
Best of luck with your pup, I hope he wasn't too sore or frightened after his encounter.
04-23-2014 12:12 AM
Gretchen
Quote:
Originally Posted by KotaRT View Post
Exactly. Natural. Training like this puts the dog OUTSIDE of their comfort zone, right? When you're running around with a service dog just about EVERYWHERE you go...think about all the things that dog will encounter....how many things that go against their natural ways...that they are exposed to......etc....

I hope I don't have to elaborate on that, I am bad at explaining and don't want to come off as rude...so I'll just hush
Unfortunately, 99.99% of the dogs you will encounter out in the real world will not have the type of training your dog is getting and will read him the wrong way. It will be important if your dog understands his primary language first before teaching him your second training language.

You, yourself also need to know basic dog language, you misread or ignored the warning signals of this other dog. Please don't report him to the authorities, it was not his fault.
04-22-2014 11:54 PM
selzer I think what I would do, is if I still wanted to train in a dog park, I would watch that first encounter, and if something happened like a dog immediately snapped at my puppy, I would use the opportunity to have my dog heel next to me, while I gathered up our things, and then I would leave.

I think that after such an introduction, to allow your puppy to be 100 feet or 200 feet away from you while your mind was on something else was in fact not protecting your puppy. But you probably know that better than the rest of us at this point.

I am sorry this happened, but with some of the stuff you are teaching, I think it was really inevitable. Dogs have a number of doggy-manners, that they learn or fail to learn in their litter. And it is rude to go up and get right in another dog's face, so rude that that behavior would be corrected. Humping too, is something that puppies will do in the litter. And as they grow and mature, if they are not dispersed from the litter, it will go from all the puppies taking turns on who is on top, to some of the puppies being on top of others. But training a dog to do this, is basically asking for the dog to display its rank to a stranger dog -- both of these things are the farthest from canine neutral, they are both a challenge to the other dog.

I hope that the pup bounces back from his less than happy encounter quickly, and I hope you sort out whatever you are trying to achieve with the dog.
04-22-2014 11:18 PM
wolfy dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by KotaRT View Post
My dog has been working on socialization with me since I got him at 8 weeks. Even something as simple as taking him to a day care to let a bunch of kids play with him, and even today (especially today..) taking him out and training around people and distractions as well. It not only helps me and him bond, but helped me as well with being out and about.
How about relaxation and having plain fun with him so he can unwind? It sounds like you could be overwhelming him. Have you read the thread: rethinking socialization?
A dog of sound temperament at this age doesn't need to go to Lowes/Walmart 5 - 7 times a week to keep up socialization skills.
04-22-2014 10:02 PM
KotaRT
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
100% and more if possible agree with Wolfstraum.

That is why I started the socializing thread because we see so many young dog's put into situations that will affect them adversely for a very long time.
OR ill prepare them for a well socialized life .

What you did in YOUR attempts to socialize the dog did not help your dog one speck.

Actually OTHER DOGS socialize your dog .

Your dog was impulsive , went into the personal space without ritualized meeting and greeting , and paid for it.

You have to go to the Vet and get anti biotics. Looks like your dog got a pretty good penetration in the gum/jaw line . You don't want any possibility of infection or abscess which will infect behind they eyes or brain .

Sometimes having a wild zoo of activity at a dog park is a better atmosphere than entering a dog park with only one dog in it (from the dog's perspective). The dog already there could perceive the area as his private domain, his territory. The dog entering this situation may be apprehensive and then to have your dog rush him , friendly or not, was too much , too fast, too close , and your dog got a piece of canine discipline from a canine.



My dog has been working on socialization with me since I got him at 8 weeks. Even something as simple as taking him to a day care to let a bunch of kids play with him, and even today (especially today..) taking him out and training around people and distractions as well. It not only helps me and him bond, but helped me as well with being out and about.
04-22-2014 09:55 PM
KotaRT
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
First off - sorry to hear you are having problems with the military stuff and got hurt....and also very very very sorry to see that your pup got hurt!!!!!

I have to wonder at what type of training you are being encouraged to do from your descriptions!!!!!! But I TOTALLY agree with Carmen. What you are admiring and training for is exactly what I, as a breeder, an owner, an experienced trainer, abhor about dog parks!!! Teaching a dog to lie on top of other dogs is not socializing!!! It is aggressive and dominance! In this instance your dog was not under control, your dog was allowed and encouraged to approach and even try to dominate a strange dog...and unfortunately, he paid the price by being attacked and hurt. In most cases, it would have been your dog who actually attacked the other dog with the behavior you describe...but that would come down the road if you continue training for this type of behavior.

Dog parks are not good places IMO....things like this happen all the time...dogs get ambushed, attacked and hurt.

I would get the dog to a vet. He needs a specific course of antibiotics with punctures in the mouth...not just anything you have lying about.
I never said that was socializing. Aggressive and dominance...LOL................next.

When did I encourage my dog to approach? Also, I will make sure to call Michael Vick, and let him know that you are interested in joining his crew. If my dog simply APPROACHING another dog when off lead and FREED..is considered some sort of travesty and you want to crucify him...well then I'm sorry?

The dog park part, I will agree with. Never going back.
04-22-2014 09:41 PM
Twyla Can you post a link to your trainer's website? Or other links to the training method he uses?
04-22-2014 09:35 PM
KotaRT
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoung2153 View Post
I agree with carmspack.. so I won't repeat what they said.. but I'll add this...

"...tried to hump him maybe? I'm not entirely sure."

^^^This would have gotten a swift snap from my dog, who doesn't even give a rats butt about other dogs. Titan doesn't escalate, and generally gives me the oppurtunity to get the other dog off him, but if I'm not quick enough, he will get the other dog off. That's it.. not blood drawn, no escalation, just "get the F off me!" BUT humping isn't something you should be non-chalant about like "AT MOST" this is what he might have done. That's dominance in dog world and nobody likes that.

Second. When you were packing your things up.. why was your dog just running around?? To the point where you had no idea what even happened. When I am packing up to leave, Titan is with me, until I say so.

Being military, myself, I would not go to the MP on post. They will not do anything especially because no one saw exactly what happened and from the sounds of it, your dog may have actually provoked the other. If anything, they will make note and if it happens again they will have it, but it is very doubtful they will go looking for this guy.

I'm sorry you're dealing with PTSD, that is never an easy thing to deal with. Hope that you can get your dog trained and certified for that. Just try to pay a little more attention to his behaviors and what you are condoning.

Oh yes, I agree. I really wish I wouldn't have been looking down at the time. I enjoy him being a puppy and playing (when not on a leash)...but trust me, he gets a nice little "correction" when I catch him trying to "bump uglies" with other dogs.

I'm really skeptical about just HOW much I can correct him for that being that he is young and frisky. I obviously plan on snipping him at or around 2 years to give him time to fully develop. I rarely ever deal with him trying to mount other dogs though. That's what I would guess happened though, but I will never know for sure.

I am the same way with my thoughts on MP involvement.

I also do not want the dog punished (the other owners dog) for something that the dog truly isn't at fault for. At the very core, whether it's training or socialization, the blame is ALWAYS and should always be on the owners.

I take blame for going to a dog park in the first place. I take blame for letting my dog be in a place with handlers who can't even control their own dogs...like a grown man getting pulled like a rag doll by a tiny dog and not correcting them or anything.
04-22-2014 09:31 PM
Sunflowers A service dog will still have to be able to read other dogs and behave appropriately.

Allowing the dog to get in another's face is simply a bad idea. You have already seen the results.

I am wondering what the credentials are of this trainer. Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer.
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