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Thread: New training video.. Toy as reward this time.. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-16-2014 03:28 PM
wyoung2153
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
I know with ball possessive dogs (including mine) if I try to reach out and grab the ball he'll sometimes jerk his head away and not willing to give me the toy. If I just stand there and just hold my hands out he'll eagerly give up the toy.
It has been a recent training with him to "Aus" regardless if I'm holding on to it or not touching it at all. In the past he hasn't been so good with if I grab it while it's in his mouth.

While Titan isn't really POSSESSIVE with me.. in the sense of it's ever been an issue, he does have his moments.. Now, he will 90% of the time give up the toy freely, 5% he'll hold on to it for and extra second before dropping and 5% of the time he will down right be a butthead like if I touch it he will just tug and not drop.. I used to sound like an idiot "Drop it, drop it, AUS, Drop it!!" that was some time ago,, a couple years.. but soon learned to still to one command until he got it down, then switch if I wanted to teach another command for the same thing.
04-16-2014 03:22 PM
boomer11 I know with ball possessive dogs (including mine) if I try to reach out and grab the ball he'll sometimes jerk his head away and not willing to give me the toy. If I just stand there and just hold my hands out he'll eagerly give up the toy.
04-16-2014 02:57 PM
wyoung2153
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchKarin View Post
Whitney, Thanks for posting this. I am far too embarassed to post anything of myself at work. One thing I would note, and this is from a novice working with a good trainer and I have a possessive dog, but I notice that often when you take the toy from Titan, you get the toy and whip your arm back away. My trainer would say, I think, that in a way, you are winning the game and this could be demotivating to Titan or, in my case, my dog does not like coming back to me because he wants to win. So when I am outing the toy I am to keep it very still infront of him and return it quickly. I also let him win and possess the toy and trot around (on lead) before bringing him back in. Sometimes I let him hold the toy and just do those long stroking pets on his flank too. I guess I make a bigger deal of him winning.

Again, this from a novice who is trying hard to change the relationship with her dog. So take it for what it is worth. The other comments are helpful to me too so thank you.

Karin
Welcome I have been afraid of posting videos too.. I am always afraid of people's negative critiques..

Thank you for giving the advice. I will def. try this possession thing. Lol.. I unknowingly did this the other day... I think at least. We were playing and at one point I just let him keep the toy while I ran around the yard and let him chase me... he kept the toy with him the whole time he was chasing me and seemed to have a great time.... hmm...
04-16-2014 11:58 AM
Baillif Page out of the Ivan Balabanov play book. Good advice. Sometimes possession is the best reward.
04-16-2014 11:36 AM
DutchKarin Whitney, Thanks for posting this. I am far too embarassed to post anything of myself at work. One thing I would note, and this is from a novice working with a good trainer and I have a possessive dog, but I notice that often when you take the toy from Titan, you get the toy and whip your arm back away. My trainer would say, I think, that in a way, you are winning the game and this could be demotivating to Titan or, in my case, my dog does not like coming back to me because he wants to win. So when I am outing the toy I am to keep it very still infront of him and return it quickly. I also let him win and possess the toy and trot around (on lead) before bringing him back in. Sometimes I let him hold the toy and just do those long stroking pets on his flank too. I guess I make a bigger deal of him winning.

Again, this from a novice who is trying hard to change the relationship with her dog. So take it for what it is worth. The other comments are helpful to me too so thank you.

Karin
04-16-2014 11:23 AM
Baillif Probably a mix of both.

My guess is if you continued to just do one retrieve and then increased the number of behaviors you asked for she would get even slower with the return or stop returning at all. So do keep in mind the return and outing are behaviors that should continue to be rewarded.

The games are something that like any tool often need to be built up. Part of the reason trainers love dogs with high prey drive is it needs far less build up as a tool before you start slapping rules and restrictions on the games which naturally make it less fun.

So when I start a dog I start building tools first. Engagement is primary focus so I use food drive with high value treats and a hungry dog. Play is done too and made fun and I get the dog super hooked into the toy before I ever start slapping rules on there to make games and then later asking for behaviors. Kind of like those old anti drug commercials from the 90s. First hit is free...
04-16-2014 10:59 AM
wyoung2153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
No need to play 2 ball or anything like that.

Just reward the return and the out sometimes. The dog fetches and what is the dogs reward for returning the cherished toy and outting? More work! So the dog returns the item slowly and honestly it's a testament to your relationship the dog returns it at all. A more possessive dog would run victory circles around you.

When I do retrieves you'll see I mark and reward outs often.

So when you play play. Don't make the same mistake as the clicker people. Click piece of food click piece of food. When they get rewarded give them a random amount of retrieves but almost always more than one.

Also ask for 2-3 behaviors then reward for a while till you get the dog more into it. Then you can start extending the number of behaviors you ask for before rewarding.


Also switch to an item you can hide on your person. One of the tricks to keeping them engaged is surprise rewards in places they'd never expect it outside of training. So for example I contact heel to my car when leaving work with my dog. While we are in the parking lot I yell yes and whip the toy he didn't know I had out and play with him for a bit and then we get in the car and leave. It is powerful stuff. Sessions are always started with hidden rewards.
I was thinking about marking the "aus" but I wasn't sure.. thanks for the advice. I'll try with a new toy, I am looking online for a ball tug, he would really enjoy that, and it wouldbe easy to hide in my cargo pocket, since I do most of my training right after work in uniform..

So the testement is then, what that we have a strong relationship, or he respects me enough to bring it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
Nice video My suggestion would be to swap the holey roller for a rubber frisbee. The reason I don't like fetch with the holey roller is because when the dog is giving it back, it's impossible not to have it get caught on their teeth. The frisbee can be spit right out at you. This is getting very picky, I know, lol! I've been called pedantic before, more than once... But I like my dog to know that handing me the object is a quick delivery, not a pseudo game of tug.
Ha.. completely agree with you, first time the holey ball has been used for training.. it's kinda hard to see but if you look at the top front of the shed in the video you can see a frisbee.... bad mom award! I can't get it down and I have tried everything!! I don't have a ladder. LOL. So this weekend I am going to have to buy a new one.. sigh.
04-16-2014 09:13 AM
Blanketback Nice video My suggestion would be to swap the holey roller for a rubber frisbee. The reason I don't like fetch with the holey roller is because when the dog is giving it back, it's impossible not to have it get caught on their teeth. The frisbee can be spit right out at you. This is getting very picky, I know, lol! I've been called pedantic before, more than once... But I like my dog to know that handing me the object is a quick delivery, not a pseudo game of tug.
04-16-2014 08:54 AM
Baillif No need to play 2 ball or anything like that.

Just reward the return and the out sometimes. The dog fetches and what is the dogs reward for returning the cherished toy and outting? More work! So the dog returns the item slowly and honestly it's a testament to your relationship the dog returns it at all. A more possessive dog would run victory circles around you.

When I do retrieves you'll see I mark and reward outs often.

So when you play play. Don't make the same mistake as the clicker people. Click piece of food click piece of food. When they get rewarded give them a random amount of retrieves but almost always more than one.

Also ask for 2-3 behaviors then reward for a while till you get the dog more into it. Then you can start extending the number of behaviors you ask for before rewarding.


Also switch to an item you can hide on your person. One of the tricks to keeping them engaged is surprise rewards in places they'd never expect it outside of training. So for example I contact heel to my car when leaving work with my dog. While we are in the parking lot I yell yes and whip the toy he didn't know I had out and play with him for a bit and then we get in the car and leave. It is powerful stuff. Sessions are always started with hidden rewards.
04-15-2014 11:12 PM
wyoung2153 Awesome.. thanks for the adcice guys! I will see what quick engagement I can come up with.

I will definitely make sure I get the full "down." you dont ever realize it until yoi watch yourself and go... umm.. wow.. haha. I love getting a second pair of eyes to look.. so thank you guys for watching it!

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