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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-15-2014 06:45 PM
mydogs
Puppy shots

4 and I wouldn't spay til 12-18 months you should read up on the threads
Shots up to 16 weeks. I wait on rabies too. I also follow dr dodd's.
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04-13-2014 08:23 AM
jocoyn The problem with any of our observations is they are anectdotal and of a small population. There is much out there (and on this forum) on the spay/neuter debate...if someone is in conflict about making a decision.
04-13-2014 12:25 AM
llombardo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmoore728 View Post

I've read where getting a male neutered can diminish drive. Has anyone experienced this and is it true?

I do have a question. I will be purchasing a female towards the end of the year. I do not plan to spay her. But, let's say for some reason I end up getting her fixed after her first heat. Has anyone experienced less drive or a more "flat" female after doing so? Any changes at all?
My male has high drive and was fixed before I got him. I'd hate to see what he would be like if he wasn't fixed if that was true. Can't really answer about a female. I have only owned one female dog that was fixed after she went into heat a couple times. She was two and it took her a long time to heal and she was in a lot of pain. Nothing about her changed.
04-13-2014 12:02 AM
Jmoore728
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Well, cancer of the reproductive organs usually hits dogs later in life, where the cancers that early spay/neuter seem to increase the risk of hit dogs younger. Cujo was neutered at 14 weeks, dead at 7 from cancer. I have two of his littermates who will be 9 in August, and going strong. Cujo's younger brother dead at 6 from prostate cancer -- yep, he was neutered very young too. And, yes, prostate cancer has a higher risk in neutered pets. I had three of his litter mates. I now have only one. Tori was put down due to a problem with her back, and I lost Whitney due to the dog food mess, which she never recovered from. Heidi is going strong though but she should be.

Altering pets early can increase the risk of some cancers and decrease the risk of other cancers. Determining what makes sense for you depends on a lot of factors. Whether the risk of hemangiosarcoma goes from 1% to 2% or the risk of mammary tumors drops from 5% to 0%, it just means you have to weigh the risks, and make a decision, with regards to your other reasons and preferences. Lots of dogs are neutered each year.

I personally think that a lot of the problems that might be related to the loss of the reproduction organs, are never and will never be attributed to that. For one thing, people who spay/neuter early do it on the advice of their vet, and 6 years from now the vet isn't going to say, "well, this does sometimes happen when animals are altered early." Never will happen. It doesn't make it not so. On the other hand proving that it is so, is next to impossible. So we make our own decisions.

And no one should give anyone a hard time for their decision.

As for vet techs being knowledgeable because of the field they are in, well, it depends on the vet tech, and the veterinarians that they are exposed to, and the type of practice and experiences they have had. Since we are telling stories:

Once upon a time, I knew a vet tech for many years, more than a decade. Her folks are breeders, so she has pretty specialized experience as well. One day, I had some pups that were not gaining weight, and pretty much losing weight, so I was taking their temperatures before tube feeding, and one was at 102 degrees after getting it back from the vet, but I got that down, the next morning it was up to 100. I knew this was high, but I wasn't for sure about the range, so I called over to the vet and talked to this tech.

I told her what was going on, and she said the temperature was fine. And she told me they were both at 100 degrees when she gave them back to me. I asked her, "even for baby-puppies"? She had the puppies the day before so she knew they were only 5 days old. She said she would talk to the vet. She called back and told me to give both puppies amoxicillin. So I went up to the clinic to get the drug. I asked her while I was there, "so what temperature should the puppies be at?" She told me, "anywhere from 97 to 101.

The true answer is 96 degrees at birth, and they gain 1 degree each week. 100 degrees is like a fever of 106 in an adult dog. And it is this low temperature that makes canine herpes so devastating to young puppies.

Because I knew what she was telling me, basically, was incorrect, I said nothing, and took the amoxicillin home, and called the 24 hour clinic where she had her c-section. It is several hours away from me, but I loaded up the bitch and puppies and we went for a day trip. And the repro-vet gave me totally different advice and information. And the puppies stopped losing weight and started gaining. Yay. As there was no sign of infection in the bitch or pups, the amoxicillin would have done no good, and would have futher impeded digestion.

But I have to wonder, does my vet not know what the temperature a puppy under a week old ought to be, or did the vet tech, just think she knows and did not bother to ask the vet.

Vets tell us not to worry and get them altered at 4 months. They tell us that weed killer on the lawns will not effect a seizure dog. They treat seizure dogs with the five-way distemper/parvo, rabies, and lepto all at the same time. And when you tell them that the dog then had 3 days worth of cluster seizures, they do not admit the connection. They tell us that to get quality dog food, you will have to go to Purina or Science Diet. They tell us that a Raw diet is very dangerous. At some point, you have to listen to what they say, and then look at what you see, and then listen to what others experiences are, and probably look up a few studies on the internet. And maybe, if it is life or death, call a specialist.
My female GSD, who was spayed young. Had to be put down at 4.5 years of age due to Lymphoma. I have no idea if early spaying caused it, but it makes me wonder.
04-13-2014 12:01 AM
Jmoore728 When Bane had his first vet visit/shots, my vet asked if we planned to neuter him. I told him I didn't plan to..

He told me at one time, vets recommended neutering/spaying at a young age. He said now they are recommending not doing it until a dog has finished growing. Just what he told me.

I've read where getting a male neutered can diminish drive. Has anyone experienced this and is it true?

I do have a question. I will be purchasing a female towards the end of the year. I do not plan to spay her. But, let's say for some reason I end up getting her fixed after her first heat. Has anyone experienced less drive or a more "flat" female after doing so? Any changes at all?

Not trying to hijack the thread, but since it was brought up, I decided to ask.
04-12-2014 09:36 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
i have friends with intact pets that got cancer of reproductive organs and couldn't be saved
another disaster is pyometra in their intact females
that's just a huge mess one i would not wish on my worst enemy

Well, cancer of the reproductive organs usually hits dogs later in life, where the cancers that early spay/neuter seem to increase the risk of hit dogs younger. Cujo was neutered at 14 weeks, dead at 7 from cancer. I have two of his littermates who will be 9 in August, and going strong. Cujo's younger brother dead at 6 from prostate cancer -- yep, he was neutered very young too. And, yes, prostate cancer has a higher risk in neutered pets. I had three of his litter mates. I now have only one. Tori was put down due to a problem with her back, and I lost Whitney due to the dog food mess, which she never recovered from. Heidi is going strong though but she should be.

Altering pets early can increase the risk of some cancers and decrease the risk of other cancers. Determining what makes sense for you depends on a lot of factors. Whether the risk of hemangiosarcoma goes from 1% to 2% or the risk of mammary tumors drops from 5% to 0%, it just means you have to weigh the risks, and make a decision, with regards to your other reasons and preferences. Lots of dogs are neutered each year.

I personally think that a lot of the problems that might be related to the loss of the reproduction organs, are never and will never be attributed to that. For one thing, people who spay/neuter early do it on the advice of their vet, and 6 years from now the vet isn't going to say, "well, this does sometimes happen when animals are altered early." Never will happen. It doesn't make it not so. On the other hand proving that it is so, is next to impossible. So we make our own decisions.

And no one should give anyone a hard time for their decision.

As for vet techs being knowledgeable because of the field they are in, well, it depends on the vet tech, and the veterinarians that they are exposed to, and the type of practice and experiences they have had. Since we are telling stories:

Once upon a time, I knew a vet tech for many years, more than a decade. Her folks are breeders, so she has pretty specialized experience as well. One day, I had some pups that were not gaining weight, and pretty much losing weight, so I was taking their temperatures before tube feeding, and one was at 102 degrees after getting it back from the vet, but I got that down, the next morning it was up to 100. I knew this was high, but I wasn't for sure about the range, so I called over to the vet and talked to this tech.

I told her what was going on, and she said the temperature was fine. And she told me they were both at 100 degrees when she gave them back to me. I asked her, "even for baby-puppies"? She had the puppies the day before so she knew they were only 5 days old. She said she would talk to the vet. She called back and told me to give both puppies amoxicillin. So I went up to the clinic to get the drug. I asked her while I was there, "so what temperature should the puppies be at?" She told me, "anywhere from 97 to 101.

The true answer is 96 degrees at birth, and they gain 1 degree each week. 100 degrees is like a fever of 106 in an adult dog. And it is this low temperature that makes canine herpes so devastating to young puppies.

Because I knew what she was telling me, basically, was incorrect, I said nothing, and took the amoxicillin home, and called the 24 hour clinic where she had her c-section. It is several hours away from me, but I loaded up the bitch and puppies and we went for a day trip. And the repro-vet gave me totally different advice and information. And the puppies stopped losing weight and started gaining. Yay. As there was no sign of infection in the bitch or pups, the amoxicillin would have done no good, and would have futher impeded digestion.

But I have to wonder, does my vet not know what the temperature a puppy under a week old ought to be, or did the vet tech, just think she knows and did not bother to ask the vet.

Vets tell us not to worry and get them altered at 4 months. They tell us that weed killer on the lawns will not effect a seizure dog. They treat seizure dogs with the five-way distemper/parvo, rabies, and lepto all at the same time. And when you tell them that the dog then had 3 days worth of cluster seizures, they do not admit the connection. They tell us that to get quality dog food, you will have to go to Purina or Science Diet. They tell us that a Raw diet is very dangerous. At some point, you have to listen to what they say, and then look at what you see, and then listen to what others experiences are, and probably look up a few studies on the internet. And maybe, if it is life or death, call a specialist.
04-12-2014 11:21 AM
my boy diesel well like if the pup had first vaccine at 8 weeks it would be 8-12-16 and a fourth would be 20 weeks
since your pup had one at 6 weeks that should be good to do just four
just a guess
04-12-2014 11:06 AM
nktigger99
Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherdmom View Post

So back to the shot question my vet is saying there is new studies showing 16 weeks is not old enough in some of the larger dogs and she really recommends a 4th shot. I haven't done it yet, my boy is coming on 22 weeks and I keep going back and forth over if I should do it or not.
Interesting....that would mean 5 shots for Abby if I did one when she was 20ish weeks also.....my vet says the last one at 16ish weeks with the rabies is good.



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04-12-2014 10:22 AM
shepherdmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post

just some anecdotal observations.....

Lee
Well I actually wanted to know what people thought about puppy shots not early spay and neuter but if we are throwing out anecdotal observations... Two brothers. One neutered super young still alive at 12, the other neutered older. Dead at 9. (not neuter related)

Doesn't really mean anything but since everyone else was throwing out stuff I figured I would too.

OP if you want your dog neutered young go for it. I really dislike intact dogs and totally get where you are coming from. I have never let a female go through heat and I've been owned by dogs for 30 years.

So back to the shot question my vet is saying there is new studies showing 16 weeks is not old enough in some of the larger dogs and she really recommends a 4th shot. I haven't done it yet, my boy is coming on 22 weeks and I keep going back and forth over if I should do it or not.
04-12-2014 10:05 AM
my boy diesel i have friends with intact pets that got cancer of reproductive organs and couldn't be saved
another disaster is pyometra in their intact females
that's just a huge mess one i would not wish on my worst enemy
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