German Shepherd Dog Forums - Reply to Topic

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Thread: Carma IPO Protection video, 3/21/14 Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces):
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
03-25-2014 06:01 PM
Glacier I don't have anything constructive to add, but I always enjoy your videos. They really make me forward to my pup coming home. I'm looking forward to participating in IPO.
03-25-2014 12:40 PM
Lynn_P Alexis, it looks really, REALLY nice.. her secondary obedience awesome!
03-25-2014 10:42 AM
lesslis Lol, yep I go to far with my voice. Trying to balance it. I certainly see a strong happy team in high competition.
03-25-2014 10:39 AM
hunterisgreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
Thanks. I'll have to re watch and take a look. She reads body cues from both me and the helper very quickly, so it could be either. I really don't care if she's straight or not though right now. As long as she's not sitting in the corner sleeve side like I see so many othet dogs do, I will be happy. Chances are that once she is more mature and settles in to her natural aggression, she'll balance out straight anyways.

I always expect to see some anticipation at the beginning stages of learning a new exercise, but to me, that just shows that she's thinking, which isn't a bad thing. It means she knows the exercise. I can work on the rest of it after and build up the tolerance to the anticipation along the way.

We don't really use the stick to bring out aggression because anything that the helper threatens her with, she bites and takes out of their hand. She has been agitated by the stick side when coming around the blind to kick her further into aggression and I believe that's why she keyed right in there in that one guard. Again, fine with me. She's showing aggression and power rather than coming in yapping at the sleeve.

What I am looking for is for her to come into the blind expecting a fight..and not just yipping. Also depends on the presence of the helper and if she thinks she can muscle him around and he's not going to put up a fight, she will go right back into a being a prey monster.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
I agree with the above and think you're on the right track. Because she is a "prey monster", she won't naturally "settle into aggression", you'll need to foster it, encourage it, and train it... but once its turned on, its on for good for the most part. My female is similar, and she'll often set up a little sleeve side, however any helper that works her knows very clearly she is not in prey. *and* if you're wanting to go far into the dark side with aggression, its safer for the helper to keep the sleeve between him and the dog anyway.
03-25-2014 10:28 AM
GatorDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesslis View Post
Fantastic. Not even close to be able to offer constructive criticism so for selfish, want to learn, reasons, is ecollar tool of choice? You handle it well. Love all the verbal praise!
Thank you! For correction purposes, I prefer the response to the e collar with this dog for the most part. I honestly don't think I use it in protection much other than a tiny bit in the back transport, and if we are working on any outs. I over do it with the verbal praise sometimes

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
03-25-2014 10:25 AM
GatorDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
In my experience, once you really turn on the aggression it will not go away where ever you set her up... so in that case rather than make her set up stick side to get the aggression, I'd get the aggression outside of the blind, and then bring it into the B&H in the blind later but keep her straight.

If you watch the video, whenever you walk up closely or walk behind her she begins shifting to the stick more... either to keep an eye on you to prepare for a call out, or something else. But she seemed to consistently do it in that video when I watched it (can't rewatch at the moment). Its not that one thing will cost points now, but anything you don't watch closely tends to snowball until it *does* become an issue... just something to be aware of and manage.

I'd also be very cautious with using the stick to get aggression as the stick in the escape, side transport, and courage test could become a problem.
Thanks. I'll have to re watch and take a look. She reads body cues from both me and the helper very quickly, so it could be either. I really don't care if she's straight or not though right now. As long as she's not sitting in the corner sleeve side like I see so many othet dogs do, I will be happy. Chances are that once she is more mature and settles in to her natural aggression, she'll balance out straight anyways.

I always expect to see some anticipation at the beginning stages of learning a new exercise, but to me, that just shows that she's thinking, which isn't a bad thing. It means she knows the exercise. I can work on the rest of it after and build up the tolerance to the anticipation along the way.

We don't really use the stick to bring out aggression because anything that the helper threatens her with, she bites and takes out of their hand. She has been agitated by the stick side when coming around the blind to kick her further into aggression and I believe that's why she keyed right in there in that one guard. Again, fine with me. She's showing aggression and power rather than coming in yapping at the sleeve.

What I am looking for is for her to come into the blind expecting a fight..and not just yipping. Also depends on the presence of the helper and if she thinks she can muscle him around and he's not going to put up a fight, she will go right back into a being a prey monster.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
03-25-2014 10:24 AM
lesslis Fantastic. Not even close to be able to offer constructive criticism so for selfish, want to learn, reasons, is ecollar tool of choice? You handle it well. Love all the verbal praise!
03-25-2014 10:01 AM
hunterisgreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
Answers to 1,2 and 5:
My personal preference is to set her up stick side. She has a whole lot of prey, and produces a much stronger guard when we push her stick side, rather that sleeve side. It really isn't any points off (to my understanding) whether they guard dead center, sleeve side or stick side, but I know I will have the stronger guarding if she is focused more stick side. It's ok if she eyeballs the stick a bit at this point in her training because that is what is keeping her aggression going, and I would much rather have that than have her barking at the sleeve

3. It is a field of solar panels, property of the field we rent. I don't know if we are "green", but they apparently are

4. I start the call out from the corner in earlier training, but I'm not sure what you mean by her turning when I come behind the blind? We have done a handful of corner call outs before, but this was her first actual call out of the blind during guarding. I didn't notice any anticipation from her, but maybe you saw something that I missed.

I do appreciate any criticism. This is the first dog I am hoping to actually do more than just title and really want to compete with, so I welcome anything seen by others. Its why I take the videos
In my experience, once you really turn on the aggression it will not go away where ever you set her up... so in that case rather than make her set up stick side to get the aggression, I'd get the aggression outside of the blind, and then bring it into the B&H in the blind later but keep her straight.

If you watch the video, whenever you walk up closely or walk behind her she begins shifting to the stick more... either to keep an eye on you to prepare for a call out, or something else. But she seemed to consistently do it in that video when I watched it (can't rewatch at the moment). Its not that one thing will cost points now, but anything you don't watch closely tends to snowball until it *does* become an issue... just something to be aware of and manage.

I'd also be very cautious with using the stick to get aggression as the stick in the escape, side transport, and courage test could become a problem.
03-25-2014 09:52 AM
GatorDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
Very nice. I'm not the kinda person that gets any use from people just viewing my video and telling me how nice it is, I personally want constructive discussion about it... sooo I'm assuming you want the same...


Some questions (Just questions, nothing implied... Curiosity is my motivation).
  1. In the first minute (I paused to comment), noticed she's setting up stick side and doing a little hunting for the stick (or maybe you've used a ball behind the helpers back or something) before she goes to focused on the helper.
  2. At 1:09, why did the helper mark her moving more to the stick side? It appeared to be a reaction from you walking up to her. What was the motivation for marking that?
  3. Is that a solar panel array in the background? Just curious if you're club is "green"
  4. At ~2:25... the down at the corner of the blind and then call out... I assume that was done that way so you're not screwing with her guarding? If thats how you train the call out, why do you think she turns when you come behind the blind? I'm wondering if you weren't constantly calling her out/picking her up from the guarding why she turns
  5. At ~2:35 she appeared perfectly straight (from the camera angle anyway), why did the helper move her to favor the stick side? Or was she on the sleeve side and that was moved to centered and the camera just makes it hard to see?

Very nice though, prettier OB than mine :-). If you really want to up the aggression, I'd do much much shorter, more intense sessions... one or two bites at most and done. And outside the blind. If you are working higher aggression and doing so much work in one session its counter productive
Answers to 1,2 and 5:
My personal preference is to set her up stick side. She has a whole lot of prey, and produces a much stronger guard when we push her stick side, rather that sleeve side. It really isn't any points off (to my understanding) whether they guard dead center, sleeve side or stick side, but I know I will have the stronger guarding if she is focused more stick side. It's ok if she eyeballs the stick a bit at this point in her training because that is what is keeping her aggression going, and I would much rather have that than have her barking at the sleeve

3. It is a field of solar panels, property of the field we rent. I don't know if we are "green", but they apparently are

4. I start the call out from the corner in earlier training, but I'm not sure what you mean by her turning when I come behind the blind? We have done a handful of corner call outs before, but this was her first actual call out of the blind during guarding. I didn't notice any anticipation from her, but maybe you saw something that I missed.

I do appreciate any criticism. This is the first dog I am hoping to actually do more than just title and really want to compete with, so I welcome anything seen by others. Its why I take the videos
03-25-2014 09:23 AM
hunterisgreat Very nice. I'm not the kinda person that gets any use from people just viewing my video and telling me how nice it is, I personally want constructive discussion about it... sooo I'm assuming you want the same...

Some questions (Just questions, nothing implied... Curiosity is my motivation).
  1. In the first minute (I paused to comment), noticed she's setting up stick side and doing a little hunting for the stick (or maybe you've used a ball behind the helpers back or something) before she goes to focused on the helper.
  2. At 1:09, why did the helper mark her moving more to the stick side? It appeared to be a reaction from you walking up to her. What was the motivation for marking that?
  3. Is that a solar panel array in the background? Just curious if you're club is "green"
  4. At ~2:25... the down at the corner of the blind and then call out... I assume that was done that way so you're not screwing with her guarding? If thats how you train the call out, why do you think she turns when you come behind the blind? I'm wondering if you weren't constantly calling her out/picking her up from the guarding why she turns
  5. At ~2:35 she appeared perfectly straight (from the camera angle anyway), why did the helper move her to favor the stick side? Or was she on the sleeve side and that was moved to centered and the camera just makes it hard to see?

Very nice though, prettier OB than mine :-). If you really want to up the aggression, I'd do much much shorter, more intense sessions... one or two bites at most and done. And outside the blind. If you are working higher aggression and doing so much work in one session its counter productive
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:04 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com