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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-22-2014 10:16 PM
my boy diesel its because people cant differentiate between a temperament problem and a situational problem
or dont want do
thinking they can save them all
the pics on that facebook page before they pulled all pics
told the story
the dog is a nervebag and an accident waiting to happen

hector that dog will always be a bite risk
of course there is always some bleeding heart that wants to save them all
its ego or sheer idiocy but whatever i guess
03-22-2014 08:05 PM
Twyla I keep reading this thread, and honestly I can't understand the thinking and/or attempt of saving this dog. The dog didn't give a warning bite. He bit once, twice, then went in for a full bite. He released ONLY after the owner intervened. How much further did this dog intend to take this attack? Instead of taking responsibility, the owner instead passes the problem on.
03-22-2014 07:28 PM
wolfy dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Maybe it is because I read through the synopsis of all the deaths due to dogs in 2013, and how many of them had a history like this dog. People are willing to take on such a dog, and then such a dog who has already demonstrated that it will do damage to a non-threat, gets the opportunity to prove it once again. The one lady fought to get her dog back. It then killed her.

And maybe it is because I have a couple of 7 year old nieces that I have been caring for at least once a week for 5 years. I know them inside and out. And so, I have a pretty good point of reference for what seven years old looks like, acts like, is responsible for.

A dog that does that to a seven year old is not right. And until these dogs are simply euthanized, I refuse to believe that rescues and shelters are hurting with some over-population. Sorry. This dog is totally dangerous and doesn't have a home. Put it down and find a home for a dog that WILL pass a temperament evaluation and DOES NOT have a history of MAULING small children. Put your resources into these dogs that for no other reason than there not being enough space are put down. I just do not understand the thinking here. I'm too thick i guess.

I was watching an episode of animal cops where they brought in a pair of Rottweilers. The one was aggressive and bit the shelter worker. He felt it was his fault. And brought in a trainer and they spent all kinds of resources on this dog. It bit again. More resources. At the end of the program they said it attacked again and they had to put it down. Well, just great. How many dogs could they have saved that this dog took time and space and training resources away from?

And even if you feel that the dog is rehabilitated -- like that Cesar-wannabe across the pond whose rehabilitated rottweiler 'service dog' attacked a little girl in a mall.

There is a huge difference between a bite and an attack. A bite I will generally give a dog the benefit of the doubt over. But repeated biting and not stopping is something that I can't understand wasting the time, space, and money on when everyone claims there are so many dogs out there snuffing it just because there is no room in the shelters. If that is no longer the case, than I still think it is a crappy waste of resources. Help people do low-cost spay/neuters, or help people afford veterinary care for their pets rather than signing them over for care. There is so much need of resources, and so few resources that putting in more than the cost of humane euthanasia into a homeless child-biter is unthinkable.

If the owners of the dog wanted to try training and management and a behaviorist, I would understand it. I would. No one wants to feel like they failed a dog. They want to try everything before giving up. I get that.

This dog doesn't have a home! It has a rescue willing to try and find it a home. How can you be 100% certain that you are matching this dog up with the responsibility and commitment that it will not cause even more damage to the breed itself.

How many other dogs could have been helped, except that someone's ego wants to believe they can fix them all. It is disgusting.
That's all that needs to be said. It sums up everything. You can try to rehab a dog but when the right trigger happens, s/he snaps again but then the rescuer will be to blame.
So again, where is the OP?
03-22-2014 02:08 PM
selzer Maybe it is because I read through the synopsis of all the deaths due to dogs in 2013, and how many of them had a history like this dog. People are willing to take on such a dog, and then such a dog who has already demonstrated that it will do damage to a non-threat, gets the opportunity to prove it once again. The one lady fought to get her dog back. It then killed her.

And maybe it is because I have a couple of 7 year old nieces that I have been caring for at least once a week for 5 years. I know them inside and out. And so, I have a pretty good point of reference for what seven years old looks like, acts like, is responsible for.

A dog that does that to a seven year old is not right. And until these dogs are simply euthanized, I refuse to believe that rescues and shelters are hurting with some over-population. Sorry. This dog is totally dangerous and doesn't have a home. Put it down and find a home for a dog that WILL pass a temperament evaluation and DOES NOT have a history of MAULING small children. Put your resources into these dogs that for no other reason than there not being enough space are put down. I just do not understand the thinking here. I'm too thick i guess.

I was watching an episode of animal cops where they brought in a pair of Rottweilers. The one was aggressive and bit the shelter worker. He felt it was his fault. And brought in a trainer and they spent all kinds of resources on this dog. It bit again. More resources. At the end of the program they said it attacked again and they had to put it down. Well, just great. How many dogs could they have saved that this dog took time and space and training resources away from?

And even if you feel that the dog is rehabilitated -- like that Cesar-wannabe across the pond whose rehabilitated rottweiler 'service dog' attacked a little girl in a mall.

There is a huge difference between a bite and an attack. A bite I will generally give a dog the benefit of the doubt over. But repeated biting and not stopping is something that I can't understand wasting the time, space, and money on when everyone claims there are so many dogs out there snuffing it just because there is no room in the shelters. If that is no longer the case, than I still think it is a crappy waste of resources. Help people do low-cost spay/neuters, or help people afford veterinary care for their pets rather than signing them over for care. There is so much need of resources, and so few resources that putting in more than the cost of humane euthanasia into a homeless child-biter is unthinkable.

If the owners of the dog wanted to try training and management and a behaviorist, I would understand it. I would. No one wants to feel like they failed a dog. They want to try everything before giving up. I get that.

This dog doesn't have a home! It has a rescue willing to try and find it a home. How can you be 100% certain that you are matching this dog up with the responsibility and commitment that it will not cause even more damage to the breed itself.

How many other dogs could have been helped, except that someone's ego wants to believe they can fix them all. It is disgusting.
03-22-2014 12:36 AM
middleofnowhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeofRiley View Post
I fostered a dog that was deemed aggressive. He was the best dog I have ever fostered. Amazing, actually. So, rescue evaluations are useful and should be taken seriously before putting a dog to sleep. Every dog should be evaluated individually by people who know what they are looking at before a PTS recommendation is made.
Yes. As in I agree with the post I quoted.

I am amazed at the pundents on the internet who are so very certain that an individual dog should be put down based on what they read. It seems worse this spring than it has been in a long while. I am going to attribute people deciding their opinion is unfailable to the long brutal winter. And have one more reason to wish the midwest and east will soon have an end to it.
03-21-2014 11:52 PM
Hector3
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
I was responding to you in the first sentence. I was staying on topic in the rest of the post.

If the case with Ginger is not the same, then why compare it? Why say you would take on this dog, Brutus, if you didn't have children coming and going? My point is that people think they can manage a dog like this, and they are not always right.

I think one should not have to wait for a dog to KILL someone to put it down, for a significant attack on a young child.
I don't have kids, but I do have kids that come to my house often. These are kids that are related to the previous owners (7 kids). Everyone (all the parents) know everything about this dog. There are no surprises. Yes this is a significant attack, but my point is there are people out there that are willing to take dogs like this. I really don't want to go on and on about this. My point is there are people out there that are willing to work and take a dog like this.
03-21-2014 11:02 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeofRiley View Post
In your county, forget about animal behaviorists, you probably don't even have a humane shelter to take dogs to. That is sad. I would be working to change that fact if I lived where you live.
We have a privately run shelter. That is run on donations. Has a board, and the dog-people in the area are not to enthusiastic about the politics there. Of course, I am not running a shelter, so I have not much to criticize.

There are inside runs for dogs and cats. Small and always full. There are outdoor runs for dogs, totally outdoor, with dog houses. In NE Ohio. This winter has been brutal. I hope they did not have dogs out there all winter.

They kill 100-200 dogs every now and again in one go due to parvo out breaks. It is sad. Big dogs generally go for $25. Puppies and smaller dogs are more expensive. But they ship a lot of the dogs under forty pounds to shelters in NY. Most GSDs are pegged for rescue only, whenever I have gone through there.

Usually predominenty pits and pit mixes, and four or five shepherds -- all on hold for rescues.

Local vets do pro-bono work there.

It is pretty sad, but, we are a terribly depressed area. We have high unemployment, and no good paying jobs here any more. The city is awful up there, people OD'ing on Heroine, and we are Meth Lab Central. The only way to push for more for dogs would be to tax the people more. Higher taxes would make it even more difficult to lure businesses here and try to pick things up. So no, I am not going to get on any bandwagon to get a bigger, better, shelter.

Now, our local training club -- in the next county, puts on benefits/shows for the local shelters in NE Ohio, and drives for supplies and food. Individuals donate blankets and bleach and food. Shelter staff do list the dogs on petfinder. And they put on some of their own benefits.

Furthermore, there have been bans on breeds here, pitbulls, in the city, and they have had to be careful how to adopt them out, but there have also been siezures of large numbers of pits. So they have their problems.
03-21-2014 10:31 PM
LifeofRiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
I don't know about Chicago Illinois, but in Ashtabula County, Ohio, there are no animal behaviorists on staff at the shelter. In fact, there is no public run shelter. I would not risk my nieces life on any recommendation from anyone here.

I know that this is not popular, but I wouldn't spend the money to bring in an animal behaviorist to test this dog. 3 bites to different body parts and not stopping, had to be pulled away from a seven year old girl -- nope. That dog is not playing, it is not giving a warning, is likely to do this again, and that can't happen. The dog should be put down. I have an education, so I am not against people with educations, but we do not always need an education to know what is right in some situations. If one of these bites hit an artery on this child it could be dead now. Then there would be no question, the dog would be euthanized. The dog has the potential to kill a child. If you do not do what needs to be done in cases like this, pretty soon dogs over 40 pounds are banned everywhere.
In your county, forget about animal behaviorists, you probably don't even have a humane shelter to take dogs to. That is sad. I would be working to change that fact if I lived where you live.
03-21-2014 10:16 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hector3 View Post
Sorry, but I'm confused as to who you are replying to. First sentence is to me, but the rest is about OP's situation?

If my dog ever bit a child that needed stitches, yes I would put that dog down. The case with Ginger is not the same. The shelter chose to keep her alive then someone adopted her and then passed on to another home not because she bit any child and then she was passed on because I voluntarily took her in because I did not like the condition of care she was under. You do not know me and you do not know my dogs, so please don't assume I will end up the same way the vet tech did.
I was responding to you in the first sentence. I was staying on topic in the rest of the post.

If the case with Ginger is not the same, then why compare it? Why say you would take on this dog, Brutus, if you didn't have children coming and going? My point is that people think they can manage a dog like this, and they are not always right.

I think one should not have to wait for a dog to KILL someone to put it down, for a significant attack on a young child.
03-21-2014 10:10 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeofRiley View Post
I fostered a dog that was deemed aggressive. He was the best dog I have ever fostered. Amazing, actually. So, rescue evaluations are useful and should be taken seriously before putting a dog to sleep. Every dog should be evaluated individually by people who know what they are looking at before a PTS recommendation is made.
I don't know about Chicago Illinois, but in Ashtabula County, Ohio, there are no animal behaviorists on staff at the shelter. In fact, there is no public run shelter. I would not risk my nieces life on any recommendation from anyone here.

I know that this is not popular, but I wouldn't spend the money to bring in an animal behaviorist to test this dog. 3 bites to different body parts and not stopping, had to be pulled away from a seven year old girl -- nope. That dog is not playing, it is not giving a warning, is likely to do this again, and that can't happen. The dog should be put down. I have an education, so I am not against people with educations, but we do not always need an education to know what is right in some situations. If one of these bites hit an artery on this child it could be dead now. Then there would be no question, the dog would be euthanized. The dog has the potential to kill a child. If you do not do what needs to be done in cases like this, pretty soon dogs over 40 pounds are banned everywhere.
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