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Thread: Is this breeder right? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-19-2014 02:54 PM
Kayos and Havoc You know I am an Army civilian and I move every 4 or 5 years. I have never left a pet behind yet.

I did have one breeder years ago refuse to sell me a puppy becasue of that. I went elsewhere and ended up with my Kayos who just turned 11 a few months ago.

The breeder I got her from told me military folks were some of the most dependable and she had never had an issue. If the breeder has right of first refusal or a return clause then this reason is bogus.

I think it is fantastic your daughter wants to be involved in dogs. If you can afford to make it happen that is great. If not, she needs to decide to like the GSD pup I think.
03-19-2014 10:39 AM
wyominggrandma One way to make sure this is what your daughter wants is have her travel as an intern with a show handler to shows.. She will get up at dawn, get dressed in show clothes, get the dogs cleaned up, bathed, groomed, walked for potty, clean up ex pens, take dogs to the ring, hold dogs, get yelled at for not having said dog to ring in time, wait till after best in show, change out of show clothes into normal clothes, then clean up after dogs, walk dogs, feed dogs, crate dogs, clean ex pens, and the circle keeps going day after day. I worked with show handlers until I started showing myself. I took kids along with me to shows to "help" I have watched kids who wanted to show dog work with handlers and after the first group of shows, not being able to do anything but "dogs" decide pretty quick that maybe they don't want that responsibility. They have almost zero time to do anything else. Then I have seen kids, like my Grandson who turned into such a handler he qualified for Eukanuba when he was 12. He took Group placements with his own dog against adults. He was asked to show others dogs for owners and also handlers. He finished a lot of champions for other folks with different breeds.It was his "niche". But he also outgrew showing when it was time to own his own vehicle. He loves dogs, but doesn't show anymore.He started working full time at 17 after he graduated early and will now be going to the oil fields next month. He loved showing dogs, but not so much wanted the responsibility of showing, grooming, etc once he had his own truck.
As to the costs of finishing a champion in conformation? For a "normal" dog, not a "blow your socks off "kind of dog that comes along and finishes as a puppy, in most breeds, you are talking thousands and thousands of dollars. The average cost to finish a Champion Sheltie is close to $5000 or $6000 . Some breeds more, some less. Travel time, motel, food, entries all cost for each show. You can easily spend $400 or $500 on a weekend and not come away with any points towards a dogs championship. Showing in conformation is not a cheap sport, especially not anymore when entries can be anywhere from $30 -$50 per show. If you add Agility to that, after the dog is over a year old to compete, then there is double entries, etc. Junior competition used to be free with a regular entry, now most shows charge for that one also.
Find a handler, even the breeder of the puppy your daughter wants and get her to let your daughter go to shows with her. Make a true commitment that your daughter can't not go cause of wanting to do something with friends. Let her spend a day or two or three cleaning up after dogs, washing and blowing out coats, especially Sammys who DUMP hair everywhere. Let her deal with cranky dogs that are tired of being in their crates all day, let her clean crates with messy poop all over the dog and crate. If she can commit to those things on a daily basis, then maybe she is ready for a dog.
03-19-2014 09:26 AM
nktigger99 One thing is are you up for taking this dog when your daughter leaves the house? And does your daughter understand that she may have to leave the dog behind if she goes off to college etc.? I am saying that because I had to leave my dog when I moved out....I left it with my mother who a week later said do something with this dog now or it is getting killed.....so I had to scramble to find a place for her....my dad took her in and she lived with him for two years till she passed. I got her in 6th grade from the shelter....a cute black and white cocker. I had to move in with my brother and he had a dog aggressive chow so my dog could not come with me.

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03-19-2014 07:21 AM
Wolfenstein
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARpup View Post
On a side note, I had my puppy in to the grooming shop today that has a self serve option and I had my daughter with me and she has herself a job lined up when she turns 16 at the end of the year. I was pleased at her initiative at trying to get a job now however the law is the law and insurance is part of the law and she has to wait until she is 16. But she will be taking my puppy in and getting to know the people and learning while she can't actually be employed there. Currently she babysits and does odd jobs for people and pays for the training she is involved in.
I just want to throw out there that in my completely bias opinion, this is one of the BEST things your daughter can be doing to gain experience. For one, she'll learn how to REALLY deal with that samoyed coat. GSD double coats are one thing, yeah there's shedding, yeah it gets crazy out of hand without brushing, but the LONG coat like on a samoyed is a lot more difficult. With a GSD, as long as you're at least putting minimal effort in, you'll put a dent in the undercoat. However, it's REALLY hard to learn to get to the root of a dog like a samoyed. On top of learning how to groom her future dog, I think the experience in dog behavior/body language that you get in a grooming shop is phenomenal. In general, the grooming process is stressful for even the most stable of dogs, so you learn an awful lot about how to "read" dogs, better than she'll even get with the sports she's involved in. It's a different atmosphere, with different ways you have to handle situations. As long as she takes training advice with a grain of salt (I've been in the industry long enough to realize that you definitely do NOT need to know a **** thing about behavior to work as a professional... ) her handling skills are really going to get a work out!

Good luck with everything! It seems like your daughter really knows what she wants!
03-18-2014 06:50 PM
SARpup Thank you for all of the comments, I guess I was in the wrong thinking it was not a fair decision on their part. I am less irritated now.
My daughter has been using trainers dogs and other students dogs for agility and she has been handling the trainers Samoyed in her handling class. She has gone to agility events and talked to the people who run Samoyeds, she has and will continue to go out with people who own them and play doing the things they do with them, scootering, sledding, agility, herding, I have made sure she knows what it takes to have one. I didn't think I would have to defend my parenting on this thread so I did not feel it pertinent to my original topic.
Thank you all for the concern for my daughter, I assure you I can handle raising her as I have handled it for the past 15 years. I have contacted the breeder that I want a puppy from and will be keeping in touch with her hoping that her bitch takes this time around and she gets a litter.
On a side note, I had my puppy in to the grooming shop today that has a self serve option and I had my daughter with me and she has herself a job lined up when she turns 16 at the end of the year. I was pleased at her initiative at trying to get a job now however the law is the law and insurance is part of the law and she has to wait until she is 16. But she will be taking my puppy in and getting to know the people and learning while she can't actually be employed there. Currently she babysits and does odd jobs for people and pays for the training she is involved in.
03-18-2014 01:15 PM
blackshep
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
OMG, a Samoyed! That is a lot of work and upkeep. What is her reason for wanting a Samoyed? Why isn't your daughter paying for the dog? She should have a job and money saved for something like this.
Samoyed's aren't that bad, good natured, happy dogs. Grooming is probably the biggest issue, they only need a moderate amount of exercise.

One thing though, I'm not sure a Samoyed is the best choice for agility, if you want to be competitive. Certainly they can do it though, but I'm not sure it's the ideal breed if you're hoping to be competitive.

OP, I do think perhaps the timing isn't right, and the breeder's concerns are reasonable IMO.

Whoever suggested getting your daughter in touch with a breeder in the area and perhaps seeing if they would be open to teaching your daughter how to handle/show one of their own dogs might be a great compromise! I bet she'd learn a lot!

I am running some Border Collies at flyball that I don't own. My GSD has some physical and behavioural limitations which makes flyball impossible for us, but I still have the opportunity to participate and have just as much fun with someone else's dogs and I've even managed to put some titles on the one.
03-18-2014 12:56 PM
selzer For the number of people on this board that don't like people coming up with them and giving them some advice about their dogs, we have an awful lot of people who offer advice about parenting when this thread is NOT about parenting.

The OP is NOT asking about how to parent her child, but whether the breeder is in left field, and concerned about stuff that is none of her business. The question has been answered. She is not.

The kid wants a Samoyed. Has her heart set on it. Her mother has already contacted breeders! It think it would be downright crappy of a parent to act like she IS going to get the kid what she wants, and then, for no good reason, change her mind and tell her kid to get a job.

Just because when I grew up the only kind of dog we ever had was the kind behind a "Free Puppies" sign. Just because when I was a kid, I had to deliver newspapers in NE Ohio with snow up to my rear end without a pair of boots. Just because, when I was growing up half of everything I made went for room and board. Just because, when I was growing up if I did babysit on a week night, I had to take my little sister and brother with me, because I babysat them every weeknight from 5PM to 10PM -- after I made dinner in time for my parents to come home, eat and go to school. Just because that was MY life, doesn't mean I think every kid ought to grow up like that.

When I was 4, the first day of kindergarten, I would get out of school at lunch time, the others had to stay all day. So my mother gave me a map, and told me to follow it to the baby sitter's house who I had never met. In the middle of Cleveland. If someone did that today, they would probably have Children's Services called on them.

I was 5.5 years younger than my oldest brother. He carried a key around his neck and would let us in after school and watch us till my parents got home. He also got us out to school in the morning. He was 10. And when I was 11, I would deliver papers up to the babysitter's home, and then put my 3 month old sister into the paper bag, and with my 3 year old brother, deliver papers the rest of the way home.

That is MY experience. It doesn't bear on this thread. I could say, make your daughter babysit and deliver papers to buy a dog. That's silly. If a parent is not objecting to the idea, and is in a position to buy her kid a dog, than far better to take her through the experience of learning about the breed, finding a good breeder, and helping her to succeed.

There are hundreds of ways to teach children to be responsible. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE POOR LADY IS ASKING!!!

This is exactly like people walking up to you in petsmart and telling you, you need to use a gentle leader on your puppy or you will ruin it. Or coming up to you and telling you that you shouldn't have that wolf dog in public, and to never leave it alone with any kids.
03-17-2014 11:04 PM
belladonnalily Until teen lives on her own, pays her own bills, and has the extra cash to buy and care for a puppy, no need to talk her out of anything.

The word "No" comes in very handy with teens. Unfortunately I know a few that have never heard it...

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03-17-2014 10:26 PM
RubyTuesday Why is she insisting that it must be a Samoyed? What is her experience with them? I ask b/c I've known far too many people that fell in love with an image of the perfect dog, cat or parrot & rapidly fell totally out of love with the reality.

The breeder's concerns are legit. Good breeders not only take back dogs that don't work out, but place them to minimize the chances of that happening. But don't be discouraged. Simply look around & find a breeder you're simpatico with who will sell you a pup.

There are breeders that won't place dogs with people who have small children, live in apartments, don't have fenced yards, won't feed RAW & on&on. I once had a rescue decline to work with me b/c I've used decidely *strong* language on a particular board. Whether *I* agree with particular limitations or not is irrelevant. Breeders must decide for themselves what is of paramount importance when placing their pups. With a bit of work you'll find a breeder who's criteria are a better fit for yur situation & you'll both be more comfortable.
03-15-2014 04:13 PM
BriskaBoo13 I agree with what everyone has said about it's the breeders right to feel uncomfortable and not sale and that it would teach your daughter some great lessons to at least have her pay some of the cost. But I don't think that anyone hit on the cost of grooming a dog with that much hair. IF you don't go to a groomer she will need to brush it completely out daily to avoid mats, which are painful for the dog. Brushing a dog like that daily is at minimum a 30 minute project too. And on top of the horrific grooming, she can't do a whole lot with a puppy.
They are a large dog and need to be carefully raised so as not to strain their joints, like a GSD. She can't expect a pup to run an agility course within the first 6 months or so that she has him. She will need to just focus on basic basic non physical things with him for a long time. If she is dead set on a Sammy and is ready to full out run agility, she should rescue an adolescent or adult. Find a Samoyed rescue...she can get a purebred one, save it's life and do agility with it. This is what I would do if I had a teenage daughter.
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