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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-12-2014 12:07 PM
Momto2GSDs If you decide to try the SeaVive, i-herb delivers to Australia. Cost from i-herb is $24.80 (US) I pay $33.25 (US) from Pure Formulas. Proper Nutrition Inc., SeaVive, 90 Capsules - iHerb.com
Cost from i-herb is $24.80 (US) I pay $33.25 (US) from Pure Formulas.

As Gator & Blackshep said the SeaVive contains Colostrum plus additional ingredients:
SeaVive Information:
(SeaVive is a combination of SeaCURE, Colostrum, Beta Glucan, and Vitamin C)
IMMUNE SYSTEM MISSION: Prevent disease and infection
“Mucous membranes that line body cavities open to the environment, such as those found in the nose and gut, house antibodies called immunoglobulins that ensnare pathogens and potential antigens encountered in daily life. Thus, mucous membranes function as the first step in the mission of the immune system to prevent disease and infection.
Toxic invaders that sneak by the mucosal barrier are met by white blood cells called macrophages, which by a process called phagocytosis literally digest and destroy invaders in the blood. Thus, macrophages become the body's inside line of defense responsible for seeking and indiscriminately destroying viruses, parasites, fungi, and bacteria.
Two new supplements aid and assist these defenses against disease and infection. They are Colostrum, which supplies critical immunoglobulins to block invaders at the level of the mucosal barrier, and Beta glucan, which stimulates the action of the macrophages to phagocytize invaders in the blood stream. A third supplement Seacure® aids the immune system indirectly by correcting pathogenic bowel permeability to prevent hazards from passing through the gut membrane to infect internal organs. Finally, Vitamin C is well recognized for its immune-supportive properties. All four of these components are combined to produce the one-of-a-kind immune-booster ... SeaVive®. About SeaVive” You open the capsules right on to their food.


Good luck!
Moms
03-12-2014 11:46 AM
Heidigsd silvershepherd: My Nikki had demodex as a puppy too and she ended up with other health issues later. Check your PM
03-12-2014 10:53 AM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvershepherd View Post
What can I do to help boost her immune system? Her dry food is a mix of wellness and Canidae. I make a couple of different loafs which I give to both dogs at night. Chicken (or turkey sometimes), brown rice, mixed vegetables and egg is the first one, second is beef, kangaroo, mixed vegetables, brown rice and some pasta and the third is usually a "surprise" in that it can be a combination of whatever I have left over in terms of the meats, pasta, rice and usually an egg. My 12 month old has never had a single health issue and I constantly get asked about her because she has the most plush, super soft and glossiest coat you have ever seen! They also both get beef soup bones as snacks. So apart from the dry food, they eat all human grade food that I make. My 12 month old is on the featherweight end of the scale at 52lbs but she decides when she has eaten enough and just stops - never had a dog like her! She is lean but there are no bones, ribs, vertebrae.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvershepherd View Post
You assume that all these things are occurring at once. They are not. The gastrointestinal issues are under control and I've made sure she is eating well before getting her vaccinated. She has had only her second vaccine of 3 and she is 5 months. So no, I'm not hitting her with everything at the same time. According to a typical schedule of vaccination in Australia. she should have had her 2nd booster (3rd injection) at 12 weeks. She is somewhere between 18-22 and has had her 1st booster (2nd injection). I've let issues settle before continuing with vaccination.



See here is where you lose my respect in spite of your initial helpful remarks. I thought you were going to be someone of intelligence until the second paragraph. I've clearly stated that I feed food I prepare myself and am looking for things to add to boost the immune system. Kibble may be "crap" as far as you are concerned, but it does not do an animal any favors to not allow their teeth and gums to be stimulated by crunching on harder foods. She also has bones. I am aware that it isn't the be all and end all for trace minerals which is why I asked about them. I wasn't aware I had to explain that directly; I thought outlining the prepared foods and saying I was looking for immune boosters made it obvious.
I am simply asking for some supplements and names of products to boost the immune system of my dog. I apologise for not knowing all dog branded supplements by name. .
Pardon my confusion. Long post

I suggested Bovine colostrum - Human supplement - no dog brand name.

Selzer went to the trouble of posting - you sounded like you knew better about puppy health and when dogs get demodex, what age it is considered immune issue (older dogs - not verbatim) and then went on to say vaccines do not suppress (again. not verbatim)...and then dropped the Biochemist...so you should know better...Better then a breeder?

OK - I apologize for the roll eyes. It was late, maybe I misinterpreted your post depicting vaccines as a non-issue -You seem to have it all under control, so not sure what you need - maybe more a platform to vent out the breeder.

Good luck with your pup

P.S. ~ I didn't assume anything...it's a puppy...GI troubles may resolve, but the ripple effect takes more time
03-12-2014 09:58 AM
KaiserandStella Unlike Sarcoptic mites, Demodex mites are naturally present on most dogs and puppies (natural skin fauna on mammals) living in the fur follicle symbiotically like the mites on human eye lids/lashes. They are opportunistic though, when the immune system of the pup/dog goes down they take over. Irritations from larger amounts of the mites than would be present normally in dogs with healthy immune systems is what causes the symptoms of Demodex. A pup can have a small colony without issue/symptoms. This means that your puppy has a weakened, suppressed, compromised, or defective immune system.

My dogs have never had demodex or any other serious issues but I did take in a stray bulldog mix a couple years ago with full blown demodex that I successfully treated and found a home for. I think first and foremost it's important to keep stress low and feed the best food possible. My opinion is raw would be it. For immune boosting: Give fish oils (or anything else rich in omega 3), colostrum, enzyme supplements, probiotics (or plain yogurt is good), raw honey, coconut oil, immune boosting herbs safe for dogs, vitamins, and antioxidant supplements.

Apart from something for secondary skin infections, a soothing oatmeal/coconut wash would be a good idea.
03-12-2014 07:50 AM
silvershepherd
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBytes View Post
B

Vaccines suppress the immune system for approx. 10 days. You already have health issues starting in the gut - that, incl. vax. is why your pup has demodex. Kibble is crap and not bio-available....but you are a biochemist so you should be able to analyze that
You assume that all these things are occurring at once. They are not. The gastrointestinal issues are under control and I've made sure she is eating well before getting her vaccinated. She has had only her second vaccine of 3 and she is 5 months. So no, I'm not hitting her with everything at the same time. According to a typical schedule of vaccination in Australia. she should have had her 2nd booster (3rd injection) at 12 weeks. She is somewhere between 18-22 and has had her 1st booster (2nd injection). I've let issues settle before continuing with vaccination.

Quote:
Kibble is crap and not bio-available....but you are a biochemist so you should be able to analyze that
See here is where you lose my respect in spite of your initial helpful remarks. I thought you were going to be someone of intelligence until the second paragraph. I've clearly stated that I feed food I prepare myself and am looking for things to add to boost the immune system. Kibble may be "crap" as far as you are concerned, but it does not do an animal any favors to not allow their teeth and gums to be stimulated by crunching on harder foods. She also has bones. I am aware that it isn't the be all and end all for trace minerals which is why I asked about them. I wasn't aware I had to explain that directly; I thought outlining the prepared foods and saying I was looking for immune boosters made it obvious. But that's not my issue, you lose my respect by saying "but you are a biochemist... Etc" and rolling your eyes. Rather than making me think you are a helpful person worth listening to, you make a jab at me in an attempt to make yourself feel superior and put me down. I haven't done that to anyone and have even stated that I respectfully disagree on some points without making and personal attacks or judgements. Making a personal jab makes anything intelligent you had to say moot by being disrespectful.

I am simply asking for some supplements and names of products to boost the immune system of my dog. I apologise for not knowing all dog branded supplements by name. Every substance goes under different trade names between species and even in the same species it varies based on country. I can look up an American trade name from suggestions and find the product name in Australia.

Much thanks to those who have contributed in a positive way and given me a starting point to read from.
03-12-2014 03:43 AM
Harry and Lola Hi silvershepherd

I have sent you a PM
03-12-2014 02:32 AM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvershepherd View Post
Vaccines trigger the immune system in exactly the same way coming into contact with a disease triggers the immune system. I know that a pup has a lower level immune system, but vaccines do not prevent maturation of the immune system. So I will respectfully disagree with you on this point. You're also talking to a biochemist here.
Again I disagree on not treating her. She has suffered with gastro, a generally irritated and inflamed gastric system, an inability to digest her food properly, tapeworm (nothing better than seeing you new pup do a poop and it has moving gravid segments), a bad flea infestation (courtesy of the low immune system since none of my other pets had fleas), an infected claw and now demodex. Did I mention she is 18-22 weeks old?! So yes she was treated for the worms and fleas, but the gastro, irritated lining of the gastrointestinal tract, dehydration and infected claw were not medicated. The gastrointestinal problems were eliminated by diet, dehydration by using unflavoured isotonic fluids and the infected claw by washing, dressing and using an antiseptic cream. None of those things required a vet visit. The inflammation was diagnosed by a vet, but he is a family friend who happened to be visiting.

So I am making progress with her. I just want to further boost her immune system.
BOVINE COLOSTRUM....look for a product that is 40% immunoglobulin, 30% should suffice of cannot find 40. I think freeze dried would be better than heat treated as heat denatures

Vaccines suppress the immune system for approx. 10 days. You already have health issues starting in the gut - that, incl. vax. is why your pup has demodex. Kibble is crap and not bio-available....but you are a biochemist so you should be able to analyze that

Add a probiotic too.

Shampoo with a neem based product for dogs.
03-12-2014 01:02 AM
silvershepherd Firstly remember I am in Australia. We don't have rabies and we don't have Lyme so obviously we do not vaccinate for them. We don't really have lepto and coccidiosis is not covered in our vaccines. Vaccines trigger the immune system in exactly the same way coming into contact with a disease triggers the immune system. I know that a pup has a lower level immune system, but vaccines do not prevent maturation of the immune system. So I will respectfully disagree with you on this point. You're also talking to a biochemist here. I don't want to get into a debate over vaccines because the debates make me so irritated when people try to make completely invalid arguments based on misinformation and a lack of biochemical knowledge. I'm in no way saying that is you, I just don't want to debate vaccines!

Again I disagree on not treating her. She has suffered with gastro, a generally irritated and inflamed gastric system, an inability to digest her food properly, tapeworm (nothing better than seeing you new pup do a poop and it has moving gravid segments), a bad flea infestation (courtesy of the low immune system since none of my other pets had fleas), an infected claw and now demodex. Did I mention she is 18-22 weeks old?! So yes she was treated for the worms and fleas, but the gastro, irritated lining of the gastrointestinal tract, dehydration and infected claw were not medicated. The gastrointestinal problems were eliminated by diet, dehydration by using unflavoured isotonic fluids and the infected claw by washing, dressing and using an antiseptic cream. None of those things required a vet visit. The inflammation was diagnosed by a vet, but he is a family friend who happened to be visiting.

So I am making progress with her. I just want to further boost her immune system.

I'm still irritated at this whole breeder thing. I've always had rescue animals. In fact I have a rescue cat I dragged from a drain pipe at 5 weeks of age that I kept. This is my first 100% pedigree dog purchased as a puppy and the whole experience has been just yuck. Not saying all breeders are bad, but I did my homework and I still ended up with a mess. *grumble*!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
The ONLY way a dog gets demodex mange mites is by their dam while they are lactating. So YES, she got it from her dam. Almost all dogs have the mites. The population of the mites is kept in check by the immune system in most dogs. And they cause no problems in those dogs.

When the immune system is immature or compromised the mites can proliferate, and then they do become a problem. This is not terribly itchy, hair falls out, but secondary skin infections can happen, and they must be treated.

The mitoban baths, ivermectin, and other pesticides can cause as much trouble to the already weak immune system than just allowing it to run its course. In most cases, it clears up totally in six weeks whether you treat it or not. Better than ANY type of pesticide, is boosting the immune system.

A dog can get a localized demodex, which is what your dog currently has, 1 or a few small spots, or it can be generalized -- a large percentage of the body. Often time, vets allow localized Demodex to run its course. Generalized is generally treated.

Also, demodex can crop up as a symptom of a problem with the immune system (in adult dogs), and in times of stress, though I think that still indicates a weak immune system.

By loading our dogs down with many vaccinations, preventatives, pesticides, the immune system can have trouble maturing and keeping up. We run these dogs back and forth to the vets, and unfortunately, some vets are only too happy to oblige us by providing more and more treatments and preventives.

Don't get me wrong, I think all dogs should be vaccinated for parvo, distemper and rabies. But then you have other vaccinations like a vaccination for coccidia, lepto, lyme's, bordetella, and on.

If this was my puppy, I would not treat it for generalized demodex unless it becomes generalized. I think your vet is being a bit aggressive there and your puppy might have to pay for that. I would follow suggestions to boost the immune system, and I would put off the surgery to alter the dog, until the dog is over a year old and in excellent health.
03-11-2014 05:02 PM
selzer The ONLY way a dog gets demodex mange mites is by their dam while they are lactating. So YES, she got it from her dam. Almost all dogs have the mites. The population of the mites is kept in check by the immune system in most dogs. And they cause no problems in those dogs.

When the immune system is immature or compromised the mites can proliferate, and then they do become a problem. This is not terribly itchy, hair falls out, but secondary skin infections can happen, and they must be treated.

The mitoban baths, ivermectin, and other pesticides can cause as much trouble to the already weak immune system than just allowing it to run its course. In most cases, it clears up totally in six weeks whether you treat it or not. Better than ANY type of pesticide, is boosting the immune system.

A dog can get a localized demodex, which is what your dog currently has, 1 or a few small spots, or it can be generalized -- a large percentage of the body. Often time, vets allow localized Demodex to run its course. Generalized is generally treated.

Also, demodex can crop up as a symptom of a problem with the immune system (in adult dogs), and in times of stress, though I think that still indicates a weak immune system.

By loading our dogs down with many vaccinations, preventatives, pesticides, the immune system can have trouble maturing and keeping up. We run these dogs back and forth to the vets, and unfortunately, some vets are only too happy to oblige us by providing more and more treatments and preventives.

Don't get me wrong, I think all dogs should be vaccinated for parvo, distemper and rabies. But then you have other vaccinations like a vaccination for coccidia, lepto, lyme's, bordetella, and on.

If this was my puppy, I would not treat it for generalized demodex unless it becomes generalized. I think your vet is being a bit aggressive there and your puppy might have to pay for that. I would follow suggestions to boost the immune system, and I would put off the surgery to alter the dog, until the dog is over a year old and in excellent health.
03-11-2014 01:40 PM
silvershepherd Excuse me for being thick tonight, but I'm confused as to whether some of you are talking about my original post or talking to loveecho or missiles. I'm kinda tired so forgive me if I'm misreading the obvious!

Apart from a tiny bit of pasta I am feeding grain free. Wellness and Canidae are grain free and all of the ingredients of the home made food is grain free. My cat has a grain allergy (note allergy not just an intolerance like most cats) and vomits if he eats grain. As he is 100% grain free and I use grain free dry as he is a pig and snitches the odd piece of kibble from the dogs every now and then. I guess I can ditch the small amount of pasta.

I'm not using ivermectin so I assume none of those comments are for me?

Ringworm - I've had her to the vet and we got very positive skin scrapings for demodex. Not just a single mite, a whole pile of them. I'm familiar with ringworm and I can tell it isn't ringworm just by looking at it. I've helped a friend deal with a ringworm outbreak in a kennel/cattery (not hers, we were helping with the animals specifically after being removed from the kennel).

It isn't kennel elbow either. I too know the difference it isn't a callous from sleeping on hard surfaces. It is on the one elbow but above the area where a callous would develop.

Demodex is passed from mother to pup so most likely she got it from her mother. This is different to adult onset where the immune system is compromised. I didn't give you her full background, but if I went into detail you too would assume it came from the breeder. I'm not bad mouthing her breeder by naming and shaming nor am I the type of person to say "omg she got a flea it must be the breeders fault" 6 months down the line or something silly like that! Her age was altered on her paperwork by the breeder and I'm pretty sure I was lied to about her age initially. According to the breeder she is currently 18 weeks old but I have a feeling she might indeed be a month older because the dates do not line up at all. The hip/elbows survey dates for the mother don't make sense either when you look at all the paperwork together and consider the gestation time . Her actual microchip number is different to her paperwork. In theory her microchip hasn't been issued to any animal and there is no record of any other animal showing up with the number that was originally assigned to her. I've had to jump through hoops to get her number officially changed as well as deal with idiots at the council who suggested I've gotten her mixed up with someone else's dog. Like I went for a walk and came back with the wrong dog without noticing?! I don't think so! Or that I am trying to pull some sort of trick and swap dogs around. Well no in actually not! I can't register her officially in Australia as a German Shepherd despite the pedigree of her parents because she is white. I can't show her and am not breeding her so why on earth would I try to fake something and swap her for a different dog? The breeder won't talk to me or return my calls/emails since the day I took her home. The vet and I first noticed the chip mismatch when I brought her home and got her checked over the next day. As soon as I got home I rang and mentioned the chip number not matching and could she have given me the wrong chip number by mistake? I assumed it was a legit error of the wrong sticker being given to the wrong pup on the paperwork. she hung up on me and now won't acknowledge me. That isn't normal for a simple error! The list of weird inconsistencies and her general poor health so far makes me think I've been screwed over. The most important thing was to get her registered to me with the correct chip number so that she is MY dog and nothing is disputed over her ownership in the future given the bizarre breeder behaviour. Fortunately I have a good vet who wrote a stat dec confirming all these issues and that this is the same dog I came home with! In reality I can't be sure that her parents are actually her parents. There were 3 litters a few weeks apart so who knows what she has done or what she is trying to pull.

Getting a new puppy is supposed to be fun!

Thanks for the thread links I'll check them out!
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