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Thread: Well established and known examples of risks associated with byb (back yard breeders) Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-09-2014 04:07 PM
Elsieb Our beloved byb gsd has had a difficult time since age 4 with sebaceous adenitis. I have been bathing/soaking tending his skin for the last 8 years and it has not been easy. Bathing and soaking him can take me several hours, luckily he has been an amazingly patient guy - I don't even need to tie him for baths inside or out - I am sure he knows I am doing it to make him feel better. He is nearing the end now but it breaks my heart that he was afflicted all his life with this horrible genetic skin disorder. The breeder was a catholic priest of all things. Our next dog will be from a well researched breeder!!!!
04-08-2014 02:04 PM
Merciel As for the second part of your question -- "where do I get a good pet dog for < $2000" -- there are lots of threads and discussions about that question because it is not one that has a single simple answer.

The standard advice is: go to breed club meetings, go to dog shows, go to sport competitions. Meet the dogs. Figure out which ones you like and would want to live with. Find out where those people got their dogs, and get in touch with those breeders.

Alternatively, or simultaneously, get in touch with local rescues. Put the word out that you are looking for a particular type of dog (and here I would suggest emphasizing the personality, energy level, and character traits of your ideal dog, not the color or markings. Sometimes the perfect dog for your home comes in a package that doesn't look the way you expected).
04-08-2014 02:00 PM
Merciel
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs.campbell View Post
IS a BYB the same as a puppy mill? Is it the Amish who are the puppy mills?

What does one have to do to get a wonderful pet and not pay $2,000.00. I want a good family dog.
No, a BYB is not the same thing as a puppy mill. People's personal definitions will vary a little, but in general a BYB is somebody breeding their own personal pet with a lot of love and a lot of ignorance. A BYB is somebody who's breeding their dog because "Fido is just the sweetest dog ever and everybody should want one of her puppies" or "I want my children to experience the miracle of life" or whatever.

They don't know anything about pedigrees or genetics or putting together a good match, they don't test or title their dogs in anything (they often don't even know about the existence of dog sports), and they are not breeding for any clear purpose or direction beyond "I love my dog." Their intentions are not bad, but they just have no idea what they are doing.

Sometimes you get a good dog from these people. Sometimes you don't. It is basically pure luck, because they don't know enough themselves to give you any meaningful guidance.

A puppy mill, on the other hand, is one type of commercial operation. There are many others, ranging from small-scale commercial breeders who look like BYBs to big glossy commercial operations in ultra-modern, hospital-like kennels on giant manicured campuses. These people do know what they are doing, and what they are doing is breeding dogs for money.

Sometimes they are highly knowledgeable about the breed and have a clear purpose to their program beyond that. More often they don't, and it is strictly about raising dogs as a commodity product for maximum profit.

Again, sometimes you can get a good dog from these sources (particularly if you're dealing with a commercial operation geared toward more knowledgeable buyers), but IMO the odds are considerably worse with the average commercial breeder than the average BYB, because they are often starting with worse stock and intentionally cutting whatever corners they can to maximize profits.
04-08-2014 01:30 PM
sehrgutcsg
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs.campbell View Post
This has been informative to say the least. I looked up the link on byb on google images and almost threw up in my mouth. I ask this and it may be subjective. IS a BYB the same as a puppy mill? Is it the Amish who are the puppy mills? Also, I do think that someone can breed a nice pup and not have a full blown kennel and not have to charge 2,000.00. I do understand though that Vet bills are high and so is dog food etc. Prices rise and there is inflation. What does one have to do to get a wonderful pet and not pay $2,000.00. I want a good family dog.
I also noted someone posted about life length. My mom paid top dollar for a protection dog who died of cancer a few yrs after she got him. It tore her up. She adored that dog. We are talking big money 15 yrs ago. What should I expect the life expectancy of a well bred dog to live?
I also, think there has to be some reputable people who don't have a kennel who breeds their dog with another decent dog and raises pups in home underfoot and doesn't have to charge 2,000 to break even. I am not wanting to show. I just want a dog to love, a GSD not an ankle biter.
Mrs. C,

I wish there were an easy answer to your questions. Pay the money and risk it, if you have the money >? If your like me and question everything in life you are taught as a child, try to beat the odd's every chance possible, disobey real solid logic, take steps to make the worst scenario the best and have dumb luck on your side, search out something that makes you feel like you did everything possible to; "home" the right animal based on your morals. My dog came from the worst part of Los Angeles, CA the odd's were against her, I would not even drive there, we met at the vet however, the outcome remain's optimistic and she's one heck of a GSD.. Best wishes and welcome, you will learn something here, no doubt. !!!
04-08-2014 01:15 PM
mrs.campbell This has been informative to say the least. I looked up the link on byb on google images and almost threw up in my mouth. I ask this and it may be subjective. IS a BYB the same as a puppy mill? Is it the Amish who are the puppy mills? Also, I do think that someone can breed a nice pup and not have a full blown kennel and not have to charge 2,000.00. I do understand though that Vet bills are high and so is dog food etc. Prices rise and there is inflation. What does one have to do to get a wonderful pet and not pay $2,000.00. I want a good family dog.
I also noted someone posted about life length. My mom paid top dollar for a protection dog who died of cancer a few yrs after she got him. It tore her up. She adored that dog. We are talking big money 15 yrs ago. What should I expect the life expectancy of a well bred dog to live?
I also, think there has to be some reputable people who don't have a kennel who breeds their dog with another decent dog and raises pups in home underfoot and doesn't have to charge 2,000 to break even. I am not wanting to show. I just want a dog to love, a GSD not an ankle biter.
04-07-2014 12:14 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelia View Post
Of the three byb gsds I know two of them have hip displasia and the other is high strung to the point of neurotic and has skin issues. She is still quite young so we shall see how her hips hold out. Of the many, many, many 'american' style registered gsds I know (personally, I won't count the ones I know through their owners on the internet) not one has allergies, hip displasia, perianal fistulas, elbow issues, EPI. One is a little sharp but none have any major temperament issues.
I work in a pet supply store and the only gsds that I see that are sane and well mannered in public are from registered breeders that work their dogs. We have a local registered breeder who imports dogs from germany and sells 'top european bloodlines' and every one of their dogs I have seen is a high strung maniac. They do not work their dogs, just try to make a profit off of 'rare champion german heritage'.
IMO a registered dog, from a proven good kennel you have thoroughly researched is your best bet for a healthy, sane dog.
A month late but...

How do you know by looking at a GSD that its from a registered breeder that works their dogs? Do the owners tell you that? How well do the owners know what certain titles mean or what is "proven" by seeing IPO3 on a pedigree?

I know hundreds of GSDs. I've seen plenty work/show ect. There is no telling by looking at a dog where it came from or how "responsible" the breeder is.

I've met an imported, "police prospect" that was purchased from the importer because of their great reputation and the dog is the biggest spook I have ever seen/met in my life. It was supposed to be a POLICE DOG.

Hip problems aren't exclusive to BYB. Plenty of "respected breeders" end up with HD pups and they mark it up to genetics, give the buyer another puppy, and call it a day...but a dog is still left living with pain and HD. I've seen those breeders continue to use the bitch or the stud that has produced a pup or two with HD...

I think the point OP is making is that your "risk" of a bad dog isn't that much less with a byb than it is with a "reputable breeder." Depending on your cost/benefit analysis, it is very easy to make the case that the extra $1000+ you're paying for a puppy from a good breeder, isn't worth the decreased risk you're getting because they claim to be knowledgeable.

We've had a few people that have gotten dogs from reputable breeders here, with amazing dogs in their pedigrees, that have ended up with fear issues and some have even bitten...if you look up some of those threads, the blame usually goes onto the handler instead of the pedigree/breeder. When the pedigree is non-existent, or the breeder is a byb, all the blame gets placed on the breeder. It's kind of funny when you read those types of threads and see how people are unwilling to accept that a good pedigree, doesn't always guarantee what you think should happen.
04-07-2014 11:46 AM
sehrgutcsg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelia View Post
Of the three byb gsds I know two of them have hip displasia and the other is high strung to the point of neurotic and has skin issues. She is still quite young so we shall see how her hips hold out. Of the many, many, many 'american' style registered gsds I know (personally, I won't count the ones I know through their owners on the internet) not one has allergies, hip displasia, perianal fistulas, elbow issues, EPI. One is a little sharp but none have any major temperament issues.
I work in a pet supply store and the only gsds that I see that are sane and well mannered in public are from registered breeders that work their dogs. We have a local registered breeder who imports dogs from germany and sells 'top european bloodlines' and every one of their dogs I have seen is a high strung maniac. They do not work their dogs, just try to make a profit off of 'rare champion german heritage'.
IMO a registered dog, from a proven good kennel you have thoroughly researched is your best bet for a healthy, sane dog.

Your opinion is appreciated, but I am in the opposite thinking mode. Money cannot buy you; a better dog, 88% is just dumb luck. If your not into "paperwork" and just judge the animal on it's own merits, you will be defeated...
03-21-2014 03:49 PM
Baillif His best works were the crappy ones he did for drug or pyramid money
03-21-2014 03:44 PM
sehrgutcsg My dog is surprising me every day - growing fast - starting to charge around the house -stealing bacon off the desk - showing some bad habits - really really doing well - I must say that I'm very pleased with my puppy at about 13 weeks - last night was a little rough with possible teething so I gave her a stick to chew on in the middle of the night - but I guess everything good has it's price. I liked your other picture better Baliff. one of my favorite movies a couple of them were done by starting with; "Valley Girl" which my brother-in-law did the movie poster. "Family Man" was another.
03-21-2014 03:25 PM
ZoeD1217 I had to scroll down and see if I purchased a pure bread puppy... sounds like something I'd do

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