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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-08-2014 11:26 PM
ILGHAUS I was skimming through this thread so in parts I'm not sure who "he" or "that trainer" is.

Regarding Tyler Muto I participated in approx. 16 hours of one of his training seminars this past August and liked what I saw and heard so much that I have signed up for another 16 hours this coming April. The first seminar was filled with professional trainers that flew or drove in from around the country and one or two of them had attended one of his previous seminars. The same is true of this next one that I will be attending.

In the lecture parts or Q&As he several times spoke of some of his methods used and gave credit to other trainers for some of those methods. During that time and since then when visiting his private Face Book group consisting of those people who have participated in his previous seminars, I have never seen any posts against any other trainer, style of training, or training tools. I know he has used clickers/rewards to prong collars based on the dog and what was being taught. The only thing that I remember him speaking against was the old style of training which included jerking a dog around.

I came away from the first seminar with some ideas that I really liked and told myself that if I ever had the chance to go to another one of his that I would. I expect to enjoy myself and learn some more things of interest to me and am looking forward to April's seminar.
03-02-2014 10:31 PM
Chicagocanine Personally if it was me I would pass on it. I made the mistake of staying in a class that used harsher methods than I liked at the time once and I regretted it later even though I mostly kept to the type of training I was used to while in the class.
I don't understand the "no treats" stuff. I use whatever is motivating for the dog, and I don't see why you would want to ignore a strong motivator (for many dogs). Even the "old school" obedience classes I took used treats.
03-02-2014 10:07 PM
Mary Beth If you want to give to try one class like your husband suggested, I don't think it would confuse Kane if you used treats at home and not at the class. The class is a different environment with other dogs, their handlers, and the trainer - so much going on that Kane will hopefully not think of treats - though you could slip him a treat right after class for being a good dog. What you may want to do is to observe a class first and see if you want to enroll. From what you have described of the trainer, it does remind me very much of the first edition (c1978) of the Monks of New Skete "How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend". I would recommend reading that book to give you a background and further information to help you make your decision.
03-01-2014 11:44 AM
aqueous18 Thank you for all the replies. I know there are many common threads about the issue, but Baillif is right. I'm ignorant to other training methods and interested in learning what else is out there. However, not at the expense of my dog. I watched the Tyler Muto videos on the prong and have decided I want to use that and will not be entertaining a choke chain.

Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom View Post
Anyone who thinks using food rewards in training means you have to reward the dog every time they sit for the rest of their lives is demonstrating either total contempt for a very effective training method, or a stunning lack of understanding.
I think it was just my wording that messed that up. He didn't come out and say if you train with treats, that you'll be stuck using them forever. That is just something I heard frequently when I was a trainer using treats. People knocking the treat method.

I'm emailing the Schutzhund Club of Buffalo to see if they will still let us participate with less than good manners. My husband is pushing me to try at least one class before deciding against it. I'm going to voice my concerns with the trainer and explain that I won't be participating in any of the things I disagree with, whether it be alpha rolling or the other red flags you all mentioned. I still don't agree with the no treat method, would it confuse Kain to do our practice sessions at home with treats?

(I'm going to create another thread in the equipment section, as I found a Sprenger prong at CountryMax and couldn't pass it up. It's amazing, but probably best not placed here.)
02-27-2014 06:55 PM
mego I would pass on that class. I believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with training with food or toys, it works better for some dogs than praise alone. I disagree with his statement about using a headhalter if he is a trainer that uses corrections, its dangerous to correct with that thing.

You can learn a lot online just from videos. People mentioned Tyler Muto. Michael Ellis dvds are really good. People here on this site have uploaded videos of their heelwork etc and had others comment on pointers or give advice. You can do a lot by yourself!

This is irony to me: but they DO NOT allow prong or e-collars. So at least the trainer isn't a "my way or the highway" kind of guy.

as for this Do you think GSDs benefit from a different or specific kind of training?
I think individual dogs benefit from kinds that work well for them. your dog, if he as as high drive and energy as he sounds, would probably mesh just fine with a balance between positive reinforcement (food, toys, etc) for learning, and prong correction for proofing. If you see your dog shut down you will know it doesnt work. I don't believe in alpha rolls as good methods
02-27-2014 06:53 PM
selzer I can get something out of any training class. If I paid the money for the class, I would go with the dog, but YOU need to be clear that YOU are responsible for you dog's training and will have to live with the consequences. What this means, is that if you do not agree with something, than DON'T DO IT.

Do not make a big deal about it. If they call you out on it, tell them, that you will need to use a different method to accomplish that, because that doesn't work for you. But generally, just go with the flow. Our dogs are not made out of glass and they can handle most of what we send their way.

While I am not a fan of prongs, or choke chains or e-collars, you can use the prong in practice and then in the class switch to a martingale or a choke. A martingale is great because it won't let the dog slip its collar, and if you use one with some or all chain, it will give the dog the audial cue that he has reached the end of his tether. The martingale also tightens around the neck like a prong collar, so that is less likely to give undue pressure to an area of the dog's neck like a flat collar or choke chain might.

Just because it was a little confusing:

weary is when you are tired
wary is when you have concerns/nervous/anxious

Good luck with the puppy.
02-27-2014 06:50 PM
David Winners If you are interested in IPO, I would head to the club straight away. They will help you train in a manner that leads towards your goals, and you will avoid creating conflicting behaviors or bad habits from the start.

Don't worry about manners. I love it when someone brings a dog with no training. It just means I don't have to undo anything they may have started different than me.

David Winners
02-27-2014 06:46 PM
Baillif What kaimeju said.

OP is suffering from culture shock of going from one side of the training spectrum to the other with no in-between. Find the middle path.
02-27-2014 06:38 PM
nktigger99 Oh and follow your gut.....parenting instinct is there for a reason be it two legged or four legged kids.

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02-27-2014 06:36 PM
nktigger99 I think if a trainer is locked into one method then they would not work for me. I think a trainer with a large tool box of tools even maybe going off their primary method would be able to address what ever issue we have vs. Someone locked into my way or the highway.

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