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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-24-2014 12:53 PM
katdog5911 Will definitely look into the lamb bones too. I bought some knuckle bones from a butcher today and Stella is happily chewing away. I will see how her itching goes as this is a beef bone. They also sell turkey necks and will cut it to size but I see that this is a meal food not a recreational bone....

If she ate a turkey neck, would that be a meal? Would I add something else to it? The premade is pretty pricey and I would like to be able to supplement it with some DIY (for lack of a better term) raw feeding.

Wow, I am glad we are not couch potatoes! It seemed that a lot of people do a whole lot more. I am going to try herding with Stella in the spring. Now that will definitely take her out of couch potato zone!

I really hate the hungry phase of losing weight....sigh.
02-24-2014 08:23 AM
cci058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbrz View Post
The bold portion is likely true. However, many dogs do have food sensitivities/intolerences, which can cause an immune response, irritate the gut and cause skin problems.

Antibody Production to Food

I can say from personal experience my dog can not have pork. It causes her to have a rash and severe itching within hours of consumption. Itching so bad she breaks the skin and bleeds. And, yes we know it is the pork as it has happened each time she was given pork (only twice). It took more than a week for her to recover from symptoms each time.

Chicken as a protein is a complex problem. Most super market chicken that is very inexpensive (ie: walmart leg quarters 10 lb. bag for .59 lb.) has been adulterated with a "flavor enhancing solution" that contains a lot of salt and other unknown ingredients. These "flavor enhancers may be the issue, not the protein. Be sure to read the label on chicken products to be sure there are no additives. Ideally, Organic free range chicken would be the way to go. Unless you have access to a chicken farmer, buying this in a super market is likely not affordable for most. I know it's not for me.
Again, your dog could very well have a food intolerance to chicken.

Pre-made raw diets are another whole category. Any ingredient could be cause for intolerance the same as kibble.

Much of the food in the supply chain today has no resemblance to the same foods fifty years ago. There is so much artificial, toxic crap in our lives it's no wonder we and our dogs are have such issues.

Then you have environmental allergies that may very well be complicating things.
This actually supports my point.... We add so many things to our foods and those additives are what cause the issues for both people and dogs. It isn't the protein itself that causes the inflammatory response. It is the GMO grains, wheat, corn and soy that we are feeding the chickens or the turkeys or pigs that are eventually fed to our beloved furbabies. Other than grass fed beef, the cows are fed processed grains and are shot up with steroids and hormones to make them bulk up faster and weigh more so they make more $ on them. Those things are then consumed by us and our pets. Those are the things causing the responses. While affordable, the chicken from Walmart comes from disgusting processing mills where the chickens never see the outside of a cage and never even walk. They eat processed grains, etc and their conditions are beyond inhumane. If I don't eat those things I certainly won't feed them to my dog. Search for a farmer who raises pastured chickens or turkeys and feeds non GMO forage to the pigs. Grass fed beef is also the way to go. Its food in it original state, the way it was meant to be.

For environmental allergies, I recommend colostrum. It enhances the immune system and fights allergies.
Amazon.com: Symbiotics Colostrum Plus, 240 Capsules: Health & Personal Care Amazon.com: Symbiotics Colostrum Plus, 240 Capsules: Health & Personal Care
02-23-2014 05:12 PM
Springbrz So, if Stella were eating prey model raw for an 80lb dog (ideal weight) eating 2% of her weight should be getting 1.6 lbs. per day. At 3% she would be getting 2.4 lbs. per day. Prey model raw has more meat than most pre-mades as it doesn't have any fruits/veggies added that many pre-mades have.

Actually, what you describe for exercise seem fairly active (not a couch potato). So she may be hungry.

That said, if she needs to lose some weight then both you and Stella may just have to work through the "hungries" for a bit like all dieters... LOL!

Turkey is a poultry. If you think she has issue with chicken you may want to avoid turkey. She could probably eat through a frozen turkey neck in 5 minutes or less. I like to use raw beef rib bones. They have a little meat. Good amount of cartilage for chewing and the bone can't really be chewed completely so they keep my girl busy for a good while. Usually around 45-60 min.

I see on Victory Foods web site they have Lamb bones. I would give those a try. I would love to get my hands on lamb bones. They look like they sell a very nice premade raw product and they offer both with and without veggies.
02-23-2014 03:52 PM
katdog5911 Stella weighs about 85 lbs but could stand to lose a few....I'd say 75-80 lbs would be ideal for her. She is eating Victory Food, about 2 lbs a day. Plus she will get a stuffed marrow bone several times a day.

She isn't very active...
Typical day-20 minutes of fetch in the AM. 45 minute walk in the woods on a long line or leash walk. Another 30 minute walk before I go to work. And maybe some more fetch when I get home from work. Several times a week we go play with my son's English Mastiff for about 20 minutes. Of course training is scattered throughout the day. That is average....sometimes more, sometimes less. So not very active.

She has no interest in nylabones. She would prefer to chew on a piece of wood.

Not sure if beef is an issue. I will be adding some beef back in at some point. What about a frozen turkey neck? Or do they not last long???
02-23-2014 09:57 AM
Springbrz
Quote:
Originally Posted by katdog5911 View Post
Stella definitely has environmental allergies...she was tested and mold was on the list. Also beech trees but that wouldn't be an issue now.

I am new to raw so the premade has made it a bit easier to switch. I hope to one day go further with raw but for now.....

She definitely needs some kind of a bone or something to chew. I am trying to stay away from chicken at the moment as that may have made her itch more. Or it could have been the beef marrow bones? Or maybe neither..but now that she hasn't had any, she seems less itchy. Her mother had a problem with beef.

I have tried deer antlers but they don't seem to interest her. She used to love bully sticks but they don't last long. She needs to have some kind of bone for her to chew on...that might alleviate some of her hunger...it is pathetic. She sits by the refrigerator and cries. And is trying to figure out how to open it.
How much does Stella weigh? What premade raw are you feeding and how much? She may just need more food if she is very active. Is she holding her weight?
Finding bones to chew on might be hard if she has a problem with beef. I use beef necks, beef ribs and beef marrow bones for chewing. Bully sticks are good but, as you know, don't last long with heavy chewers.
Have you tried a nylabone?
02-22-2014 09:45 PM
katdog5911 Stella definitely has environmental allergies...she was tested and mold was on the list. Also beech trees but that wouldn't be an issue now.

I am new to raw so the premade has made it a bit easier to switch. I hope to one day go further with raw but for now.....

She definitely needs some kind of a bone or something to chew. I am trying to stay away from chicken at the moment as that may have made her itch more. Or it could have been the beef marrow bones? Or maybe neither..but now that she hasn't had any, she seems less itchy. Her mother had a problem with beef.

I have tried deer antlers but they don't seem to interest her. She used to love bully sticks but they don't last long. She needs to have some kind of bone for her to chew on...that might alleviate some of her hunger...it is pathetic. She sits by the refrigerator and cries. And is trying to figure out how to open it.
02-22-2014 08:04 PM
Springbrz
Quote:
Originally Posted by cci058 View Post
Just my opinion here, others may not agree, but here it is..... Dogs only need meat, bone and organ. Fruits and veggies are not properly or naturally digested by dogs and can cause inflammatory reactions in the gut that eventually manifest themselves through the skin and other ways. These inflammations never really resolve as long as the fruits and veggies are fed. Then certain proteins may irritate the already inflamed area and then the dogs is labeled as "allergic" to that protein. No carnivore is truly "allergic" to any meat source. I recommend feeding only meat bone and organ, Letting the gut heal and the inflamed areas calm down and I think you will have one happy pup!
The bold portion is likely true. However, many dogs do have food sensitivities/intolerences, which can cause an immune response, irritate the gut and cause skin problems.

Antibody Production to Food

I can say from personal experience my dog can not have pork. It causes her to have a rash and severe itching within hours of consumption. Itching so bad she breaks the skin and bleeds. And, yes we know it is the pork as it has happened each time she was given pork (only twice). It took more than a week for her to recover from symptoms each time.

Chicken as a protein is a complex problem. Most super market chicken that is very inexpensive (ie: walmart leg quarters 10 lb. bag for .59 lb.) has been adulterated with a "flavor enhancing solution" that contains a lot of salt and other unknown ingredients. These "flavor enhancers may be the issue, not the protein. Be sure to read the label on chicken products to be sure there are no additives. Ideally, Organic free range chicken would be the way to go. Unless you have access to a chicken farmer, buying this in a super market is likely not affordable for most. I know it's not for me.
Again, your dog could very well have a food intolerance to chicken.

Pre-made raw diets are another whole category. Any ingredient could be cause for intolerance the same as kibble.

Much of the food in the supply chain today has no resemblance to the same foods fifty years ago. There is so much artificial, toxic crap in our lives it's no wonder we and our dogs are have such issues.

Then you have environmental allergies that may very well be complicating things.
02-22-2014 06:19 PM
Bear L My dogs get raw eggs, raw goat milk, cooked sweet potatoes, fruits and sometimes brown rice in addition to their raw meals. When I've too much veggies in the yard, like kale, I'll blend them and add to their raw meat.
02-22-2014 06:11 PM
cci058 I am probably not the best person to answer that because we only feed meat bone and organ. All treats are freeze dried meats and organs too. If she is already getting an appropriate amount based on her weight, try feeding her smaller portions but more often. With raw, they quickly absorb the nutrients and burn the calories. Recreational bones or deer antlers may keep her busy too.
02-22-2014 05:58 PM
katdog5911 Interesting. I will have to try the raw that just contains meat/no veggies.

Switched Stella to turkey and the itching is starting to wane. But not completely gone.
Her poop was never an issue since the switch. I now refer to her poop as "poodle poop". There just isn't much of it!

We are having an issue with how much she wants to eat! It seems like she is constantly hungry. I can't afford to feed her more than what she is already getting. What can I give her in addition to her premade raw meals?
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