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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-21-2014 09:21 AM
GatorBytes When NOT to Vaccinate | Animal Wellness

^^^
1. Take care with puppy shots
Vaccinating puppies too early and too often actually prevents vaccines from having the desired effect. First of all, maternal antibodies in the mother’s milk identify the vaccines as infectious agents and destroy them before a four- to nine-weekold nursing puppy can benefit. Additionally, vaccinations too closely spaced interfere with a puppy’s immune system response because immune components from the earlier vaccine nullify the following one. To prevent nullification, the ideal interval between the first vaccine and the next booster shot should be three to four weeks.

3. Know that certain medications suppress the immune system
Steroids such as prednisolone, prednisone and dexamethasone signifi cantly suppress the immune system. If your dog has recently been on steroids, the vaccine won’t work. Just a short bout of steroids can reduce immune function over 75%! Also note that a relatively new drug called Atopica is now being used for dogs who don’t respond to steroids; it also dangerously suppresses the immune system, so you should never vaccinate a dog that is taking this drug.
02-21-2014 08:38 AM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contego View Post
Is it typical for a vaccine reaction to take so long? He was vaccinated at 7 weeks by the breeder.. I got him a day before 8 weeks from the original people that got him from the breeder. (I guess they got him when they we're overcome with stupid because a week later they decided they couldn't keep him.) And over that first week is when his symptoms started showing up. Is it not an immediate thing? It worked the same after his second round with me. He was about due for his last round before the symptoms started showing up again. Do I still give him his last round of shots, just with Benadryl? And this may be a very ignorant question but is a titer the same as a booster? And would he need the Benadryl with that too?

ETA: do I just need to let his symptoms run it's course? Would it be ok to give him regular Benadryl pills until then? Obviously broken up into an appropriate dosage.
Well, due to his age, the first two rounds may have been knocked out by maternal antibodies. So a third may be in order. You may just want to consider parvo and distemper ONLY vs. a multi that incls. lepto (this has the highest of vaccine reactions), lyme, bortadella

A titer is not a booster....it is a blood test that measures antibodies to the specific virus. If the vaccine took, then you have immunity for 7 yrs. by challenge studies and likely for life (studies have been done up to 7 yrs. that's the timeline study ended/reported to).

As for Benadryl dosing in such a young puppy, that is something you will have to get clearance from your vet for. I will caution you against "children's" Benadryl (re: ease of use, in case thinking along those lines) as there are artificial sweeteners in them - even if vet thinks safe...don't take the chance.

However, Benadryl may help with this reaction you are seeing. So I'd get on the vet about that.

Yes vaccine reactions can show up days, weeks, months later. Doesn't have to be immediate (within mins. or hrs.), however, it seems, in order to be recognized as such by a vet, it has to be immediate.
02-21-2014 08:00 AM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contego View Post
Let me add this, his initial symptoms were the swollen paws, fever, bumps in the ears, swollen spots on his tail, a small bump on top of his nose and then a blister on the outside of his bottom lip. All cleared up with the amoxicillin and steroid except a ulcer that showed up on his tongue afterwards. Vet gave hime another steroid pill to take for about 2 weeks but when it cleared up I quit giving it to him. Maybe after 9 days. I took him back to get his second round of shots and all was much much better. All the bumps were gone, just the sores on his feet were left and healing. They've healed and Thursday was his appt for his last round of shots. So now we're all caught up and he has puffy paws and a few bumps in his ears and two blisters on his paws.
Paws are not the only symptom. This all shows up 1 week after a vaccine. Or maybe an allergy to food...or maybe an allergy to formaldehyde in the vaccine
02-21-2014 07:07 AM
JeanKBBMMMAAN Please go to a dermatologist. Ask about the GSD footpad issue. If it's that, you need to know so you can keep an eye on other things that can happen in dogs who have that as a puppy. If it's not that you want to know so that you do not boost or tamp down the immune system inappropriately. Go to the derm and take notes. A lot of specialty vets will give you a written report, if not ask for something to be written down.

This is from 1995 so more info may be available now - from the upei link above:

What is footpad disorder in the German shepherd?
In this condition the pads of the feet are softer than normal. Swelling and ulceration can develop, leading to tenderness and lameness. The condition occurs in young German shepherd dogs and the cause of the abnormality is unknown.
How is footpad disorder in the German shepherd inherited?
unknown. Typically, several dogs in a litter are affected.
What breeds are affected by footpad disorder in the German shepherd?
German shepherd
For many breeds and many disorders, the studies to determine the mode of inheritance or the frequency in the breed have not been carried out, or are inconclusive. We have listed breeds for which there is a consensus among those investigating in this field and among veterinary practitioners, that the condition is significant in this breed.
What does footpad disorder in the German shepherd mean to your dog & you?
The condition develops in German shepherd puppies of a few weeks to a few months in age. Usually multiple pups in the litter are affected. The pads of the feet are soft, and swelling, ulceration and crusting may develop on some of the pads causing variable pain and lameness.
How is footpad disorder in the German shepherd diagnosed?
The diagnosis is made based on the clinical signs and a skin biopsy. This is a simple procedure, done with local anesthetic, in which your veterinarian removes a small sample of your dog's footpad for examination by a veterinary pathologist. The biopsy will show changes characteristic of this condition.
How is footpad disorder in the German shepherd treated?
There is no specific treatment for the softness of the footpads. Avoid surfaces that will be harder on your dog's feet. Your veterinarian will work with you to care for any ulcers that develop. Usually lesions clear up by about 1 year of age, although the footpads will remain soft.
Breeding advice
Although little is known about the inheritance of this condition, affected dogs and their parents should not be bred.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS DISORDER, PLEASE SEE YOUR VETERINARIAN.
02-20-2014 03:10 PM
Contego Is it typical for a vaccine reaction to take so long? He was vaccinated at 7 weeks by the breeder.. I got him a day before 8 weeks from the original people that got him from the breeder. (I guess they got him when they we're overcome with stupid because a week later they decided they couldn't keep him.) And over that first week is when his symptoms started showing up. Is it not an immediate thing? It worked the same after his second round with me. He was about due for his last round before the symptoms started showing up again. Do I still give him his last round of shots, just with Benadryl? And this may be a very ignorant question but is a titer the same as a booster? And would he need the Benadryl with that too?

ETA: do I just need to let his symptoms run it's course? Would it be ok to give him regular Benadryl pills until then? Obviously broken up into an appropriate dosage.
02-20-2014 10:44 AM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contego View Post
I have a 15 week old male pup. When we got him at 8 weeks, he was developing swollen pads, bumps in the ears and some small bumps around his paws. I took him to the vet for his first check up and to see what was going on. My vet said he had a skin infection and gave him a steroid shot and put him on amoxicillin. Vet didn't give him the vaccines he was up for because he thought it would be too much on his little immune system. By the time I took him back for his next visit. All the random bumps were gone and swelling in the paws was gone, he just had oozing/ bleeding sores that were working on healing. Vet said sores were the infections way of draining. Anyways, fast forward to this weekend, everything has been fine, infection seemed to be gone and paws were normal size and sores completely healed. Saturday I noticed his feet looking a little large and when I looked at his paw pads they were pretty swollen. And then Sunday they were even more swollen and he has a couple little blister like sores on his pads.
I feel like he's been on antibiotics nearly the whole time we've had him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contego View Post
The infection was not cultured. Vet said he probably picked it up where he was before I got him due to when he started showing signs combined with the incubation period.

Let me add this, his initial symptoms were the swollen paws, fever, bumps in the ears, swollen spots on his tail, a small bump on top of his nose and then a blister on the outside of his bottom lip. All cleared up with the amoxicillin and steroid except a ulcer that showed up on his tongue afterwards. Vet gave hime another steroid pill to take for about 2 weeks but when it cleared up I quit giving it to him. Maybe after 9 days. I took him back to get his second round of shots and all was much much better. All the bumps were gone, just the sores on his feet were left and healing. They've healed and Thursday was his appt for his last round of shots. So now we're all caught up and he has puffy paws and a few bumps in his ears and two blisters on his paws.

He hasn't been on anything but what the vet gave him and when he probios get here, I'll start him on that.
Your puppy is having a vaccine reaction. At first I thought - oh - good vet for not vaccinating re: too hard on his little immune system...then I read and think - Bad Vet...he dosed a baby with abx. and steroids, suppressed the immune system further and just enough to mask the symptoms and then jabbed him with vaccines.

Did you get your pup at 8 weeks from a breeder? Did this breeder do the first puppy round of vaccines?

Your dog should get a benedryl injection before a vaccine or after (not sure). Then in future - you need to titer to make sure you have immunity. If you do, then DO NOT vaccinate again (except rabies by law and because a whole bunch of people are going to dump on me if I don't specify this...but with a benedryl shot).

Your pup could be heading for a world of hurt if you (and your Vet) don't take heed to these symptoms and recognize for what it is.
02-20-2014 10:37 AM
Contego I have considered talking to the breeder, I've only hesitated because I didn't get him directly from the breeder. I may email them just to see. My vet says his weight and size is fine, he seems to think he'll be a late or slow bloomer. But he's not going to be huge anyways, his dad was 75lbs. I would be curious to know if he was the runt though.

P.s.
I was a week off, he's 16 weeks old and 20lbs.
02-20-2014 06:44 AM
TANDB You mention he seems to be small. Was he the runt of the litter?
02-20-2014 05:37 AM
DHau I suggest you talk to the breeder about this in case your problem turns out to be lifelong. I would be curious to see if the litter mates had it too.
02-17-2014 06:24 PM
carmspack seriously, add digestive enzymes to the diet . This is where it starts . The food is broken down to smallest most digestible , absorbable form . Food that is not digested , proteins, enter the blood stream and become part of inflammation .
Probiotics and digestive enzymes should go hand in hand.
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