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Thread: Does this dog look nervous? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-17-2014 10:34 AM
Blitzkrieg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
Internal conflict or classically conditioned stress response to ecollar stim associated with the cat? Know first im just posing the question i dont think your method is inappropriate.
Internal conflict the dog still wants to chase the cat.
02-17-2014 02:21 AM
David Winners Here is a video that Martine Loots shared of Kumo (Fun son).

At about the 3 minute mark, you can see him doing food refusal. There is inherent stress in this exercise. He does some lip licking, a yawn, a couple look aways, but is very solid in the behavior. As with the dog in the first video, a down can be a stressful position, especially with action going on. I think this reaction to the position in the fist video, and this video as well, is normal.

IMO, stress can be exaggerated by using harsh training methods as well, if the dog is expecting a harsh correction for breaking the down. This may be the case in the first video.

If you view the rest of this video, you will see a very confident young dog. Some things cause stress, and that is part of life. IMO, it is how the dog deals with the stress through behavior and resilience.

02-16-2014 09:42 AM
Baillif Internal conflict or classically conditioned stress response to ecollar stim associated with the cat? Know first im just posing the question i dont think your method is inappropriate.
02-16-2014 09:35 AM
Blitzkrieg1 Control and precision in training whatever the behavior is not about alpha whatever that means or percieved fairness. Its about reliability and correctness. Anything less then that is failure.
My dog likes to play with the cat..alot, i do not allow this in the house. If she looks at the cat in an intense way she recieves e collar stim on low levels. She looks away licks her lips looks back etc. She no longer chases the cat nor is she afraid of the cat however if he gets close to her she does those behaviors. Internal conflict. I dont care what it looks like as long as she isnt scratching up my hardwood chasing the cat. It has no effect on the rest of the training.

Teach heeling with a prong or e collar exclusively you get the same look. The dog will still heel and in time those expressions will go away especially if you add rewards later. If the dog is not destined for sport but has a function that requires a reliable heel it doesnt matter.
02-16-2014 01:53 AM
carmspack some things you don't , can't teach .
02-16-2014 01:30 AM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
my last post wasn't completely cooked -- a shepherd dog used in the way of the HGH dog may need to be left with the herd with the shepherd absent and work diligently without being bribed or distracted, not tempted to follow some sweet talker , a romping dog , or offers of steak . The shepherd may be in the pub getting a meal -- and the dog parked outside the door.
The dog has to have self discipline , self initiative without being "managed" or micro managed .
That is called dependable . Loyal .
One would expect a dog who spends 12+ hours with the flock (and generally the shepherd) 24/7, 365 days per year to have learned a lot of behaviors we can't expect of our dogs.
02-16-2014 01:22 AM
doggiedad i was in the bank with my dog. my dog was in a down/stay
at the srvice counter. i was at the window. i heard my dog
whimper/whine. i turned around and there was a little girl laying
on top of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysaworkingdog View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little unrealistic to train your dog to the point where it has to endure little unpredictable creatures crawling over it during a down? When is that ever going to have a practical application. I understand that you need to proof your dog, but I think that should be to things that the dog might encounter under everyday circumstances, that are out of your control i.e. if it see's another dog from across a field or see's a cat that it wants to chase.

And if you're managing your dog properly they should never be asked to down in situation such as this. Maybe it's just me but I don't see the need to force my dog to interact with strange children, or even my own (if I have some in the future) whilst downing ESPECIALLY if it's something that is stressing out my dog unnecessarily. Like a certain poster said below, you want your dog to learn to deal with stress but these should be within reason.
02-16-2014 01:21 AM
carmspack my last post wasn't completely cooked -- a shepherd dog used in the way of the HGH dog may need to be left with the herd with the shepherd absent and work diligently without being bribed or distracted, not tempted to follow some sweet talker , a romping dog , or offers of steak . The shepherd may be in the pub getting a meal -- and the dog parked outside the door.
The dog has to have self discipline , self initiative without being "managed" or micro managed .
That is called dependable . Loyal .
02-16-2014 01:21 AM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
oh dear - Campagne and Night Trials (which are not phony title schutzhund trials ) imitate the conditions in which a dog would have to work , practical and functional , real life . The HGH type dog was not a border collie dog but a living fence going from meadow to meadow, town to town , to the hills in the annual transhumance .
The dog may be parked out in front of the gasthaus , or pub where the shepherd was taking his meal . A dog must not take bribes , refuse food for safety . A great deal of some very special qualities have been lost . Saw a video of a 20 minute interview , in German, young lady student interviewing shepherd with large flock doing land management . He had two dogs , which would lay behind him , keeping an eye on these 200 hundred or so sheep which were starting to creep in ones or twos closer to the roadway . The dogs on their own initiative would get up , manage the situation and then lay down again.
There is nothing alpha about the training in these campagne and ring tests . Alpha and hemmed in "obedience" will not give you a dog able to make independent , correct , decisions . Flex -- - required in detection work , police work also.
The dog would start as a pup, and work with the owner/shepherd and older dog for 12 hours or more per day. These dogs aren't stupid. If we are out there with a pup and a seasoned dog, 12 hours a day, and sheep, the dogs would learn everything we want them to do, without command.

It is impressive. I have seen the dogs herding the sheep along a highway, and keeping them out of the crops and out of the road. Great stuff. Stuff they do every day. Normal for them.

If I was worried about people throwing poisoned food at my dog, I might worry about training them against taking it. The application isn't there. In this country, you do not leave your dog outside the pub while you have dinner.
02-16-2014 01:14 AM
selzer I am happy with my dogs taking a high value treat nicely from me. I also train the figure 8 with distractions, which sometimes is food. We do train with marshmellows and other treats laying on the ground. We say, Leave It and move on by. No problems.

We never give these treats. We give a treat from our pocket.

But throwing food at a dog while the owner is out of site. Or putting food on a dog, and making it wait to eat it -- those are tricks I just see no point to whatsoever. Telling a dog to Leave It when you are walking can be a life skill. And no, it isn't hard to do. You do not have to be all alpha to do it.
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