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Thread: If you created a new protection dog sport Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-18-2014 01:48 AM
volcano One thing I would do different is it wouldnt be on a field. More realistic places like inside a building or city/suburban streets. I also like detection over formal tracking.
02-12-2014 02:48 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by holland View Post
If you are a breeder though-you could just devise your own breed test-I really enjoy watching knpv
you could, but purchasers want to see more than what a breeders opinion is of a breedworthy test.
Some would have the bar set very high, others would think a CGC certification on a dog is worth reproducing that dog.

Because this thread was started due to the change in the FCI rule regarding stick hits, I thought this link should be shared here....I'm in total agreement with Brian.
End of Schutzhund? | PronouncedK9
02-12-2014 10:44 AM
holland If you are a breeder though-you could just devise your own breed test-I really enjoy watching knpv
02-12-2014 10:06 AM
lhczth SchH was meant as an all around test for suitability. Human nature made it sport. We need to make the breed test again at least at the SchH1 level. Let the rest be sport.
02-12-2014 08:48 AM
cliffson1 If the dog is being prepared to be a working dog, and you are using SCH as a foundation, then I think once the dog has reached the three level, I see no problem with this type of training for reasons of additional control and neutralizing the chances of dog becoming totally" sleeve happy". If the dog is a sport dog, by that I mean a career SCH dog that will go from puppy to retirement doing nothing but SCH on only sleeves and perfect helpers, then i think this type of training would be detrimental to career goal.
02-11-2014 09:37 PM
David Winners I'm not familiar with SDA, but I would love to detection added to PSA. I think the control and understanding the dog needs to excel in PSA is great to watch.

I think a multi venue detection event would make PSA a well rounded sport.

David Winners
02-11-2014 01:41 PM
Liesje I haven't really followed the thread as of late, but YES there is tracking in SDA though it is not required.

I am one that values control. I don't personally like watching performances where the dogs are just ever so barely over the line of control. However this is a personal preference. I've known some of these dogs and see how they are trained and a lot of it is just personal differences in priority and training, they are still great dogs. I've heard other people say they like to see a dog that looks like he's on the verge of being out of control. I value control but for me that doesn't mean squashing the dog, I just tend to seek out a dog that naturally has a higher threshold and secondary obedience. Also I like when dogs can load and cap. I use control as a means of working the dog in a higher state of drive, not to squash it. No I have never won HIT SchH3, this is just how I like to work dogs and SDA is a pretty good fit for me.

I have tracked my dog with the helper not only on the field but standing over him, though the helper was not in helper gear. He was our TD and did all the training helper work on my dog and trained me how to track my dogs. While we were preparing for trial and doing some different things to put more pressure on the dog, he would walk up on my dog and stand next to him, right behind him, etc while he tracked. Yes, I could see that the dog knew he was there and in his personal space but he did work through it and thus never made mistakes tracking because of judges or other people being near him, closer to him than me, or standing at a distance on the field while tracking. No, he was not a perfect trial tracker but tracking was his best scores in both SDA and SchH (and my least favorite phase, go figure).
02-11-2014 12:55 PM
DaniFani
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
mycobracar, danifani just curious how many dogs have you titled to high level tracking before? Or IPO3 for that matter? SDA3 (whatever the equivalent is)? Just for my own edification. If I recall there's no tracking in SDA right? Do you have any videos of your dog tracking with a helper on the field?

Honestly, I just didn't care enough to try it, but I can tell you right now control work or no control work I've yet to see a dog be brought out to a track with a helper on the field for the first time and NOT make mistakes or rush through it. I don't need the conflict with my dog nor do I want to encourage rushing through the track so I've never done this exercise before. In other words there are OTHER ways to teach control work, and IMO (just my humble opinion) the tracking field is not really the best place for that.

But, let's stay off the high horses until you can show us some results maybe? Or maybe our dogs are inferior to yours. I'm not planning to breed mine, so I can live with that
Woah, no need to get so offended and defensive. No one was ona high horse and no one said yyour dog isn't super duper awesome. ;-) Nope, haven't trained a dog to high levels in tracking. Have watched several club members not only achieve high levels training with distractions like helpers walking the track, also see police K9s trained that are way harder than most.... One old member on trial day, tracked through a FLOCK of geese 20 feet off the track. There is a pic of this on her website. Dog was successful with very high scores 98/99. I don't need to own the dog, to see that the training worked lol.

Cobra and I were just commenting on the fact that we've both seen, very hard dogs, be under complete control. It just caused pause to wonder what would happen if the out of control dogs were made to be in control.... That's all... But the old forum at its best, with deflective techniques in debate of "you don't know anything" and the sarcastic "guess your dog is better than mine." Rather than just discussing the topic. It's like those people who get all flustered in debates, yell about how someone is attacking them and mean, and storm off in a huff, trying to discredit the person, rather than just talk about what we're discussing.

Hunter, this is what I was talking about. I've seen videos of your male worked, on the table and everything. I wouldn't guess you would lose as much oomph as you think, but I don't know anything. ;-) This is what I was asking about, here's a dog that's strong, owner admits he trains a certain way because he likes the impression. There's nothing wrong with that, his dog, his training. People just get so emotional and defensive if you ask questions or express what you've seen work that's different than what they're doing. I like talking about all kinds of things. But mums the word around here I guess. ~shrug~
02-11-2014 09:43 AM
hunterisgreat I get as much control has I can without making the dog go flat in the work. I could get better points by getting crisper control, but then the dogs are not as impressive in the work as their drive has been crushed by absolute control.
Lastnight a coworker of my girlfriends said to her "Jesus Christ how are you so comfortable with that dog". Thats how I want my dogs perceived after watching them work. We never may go high in trial, but we will always make an impression lol.
02-11-2014 09:30 AM
mycobraracr
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdsar View Post
First, by neutral decoy do you mean just the helper, no equipment walking next to you?

That helper dude "attacks us" every time we see him. He is a bad guy. Right?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

You nailed it right here! Every time the dog is on the field with a decoy it's biting. We have some dogs in my group that have gone months without a bite. They are still working around a decoy with equipment on. He even makes noise, cracks a whip or whatever.

By neutral decoy, I mean one that is not posing a threat. Equipment is not the threat. The persons actions are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
mycobracar, danifani just curious how many dogs have you titled to high level tracking before? Or IPO3 for that matter? SDA3 (whatever the equivalent is)? Just for my own edification. If I recall there's no tracking in SDA right? Do you have any videos of your dog tracking with a helper on the field?

Honestly, I just didn't care enough to try it, but I can tell you right now control work or no control work I've yet to see a dog be brought out to a track with a helper on the field for the first time and NOT make mistakes or rush through it. I don't need the conflict with my dog nor do I want to encourage rushing through the track so I've never done this exercise before. In other words there are OTHER ways to teach control work, and IMO (just my humble opinion) the tracking field is not really the best place for that.

But, let's stay off the high horses until you can show us some results maybe? Or maybe our dogs are inferior to yours. I'm not planning to breed mine, so I can live with that

Not on a high horse just talking about what I see. No I have not titled a dog high in tracking. The trainer I worked for when we did this was a world competitor though. My comments weren't just about tracking but in all area's of dog sport/training. I can tell some are offended so I stop asking for control now.
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