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Thread: Advise on board train or not :( Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-08-2014 07:36 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
Well, in other thread I have met a whole pack of strays... Any time, when the matter concernes money making (board training in this case, and PP training there) I meet some "noble Cerberus" guarding not his principes, but some business.
A sports dog is brought up as a sports dog from the very first day you get him, Schutzhund obedience strarts at 3 months of age. Probably, world class trainer just assumed what the dog could have been in different hands(?) I have no right to judge, because I have never met him.
I don't have any demo dog. My dog is my tool in training owners and their young dogs, they simply start copying Lucy at one moment. But that, of course, doesn't concern the issue of a dominant dog in the family.
What drives a young male to behave agressively to the members of the family - is his fear, fear to lose his position next to the owner, whose behaviour he copies. Remove the competition, and this fear will dissapear. OP, he is competing for your love, because you are a king for him. Every time you kiss your wife or your daughter it draws a jealous look out of your dog, that's why he wants to abuse them. Nobody can train him, only you. If you could change your attitude towards not only your dog, but your wife and especially your daughter, not treating them as someone who always has to be told, but someone equal to you. Stop behaving like a head of the family in your dog presence, play submissive to your daughter, try for a week, and see what will happen. It will confuse your dog tremendously.
Many dogs are started in competition obedience much earlier or later than 3 months. Some don't start formal training until 2 years. Many working dogs don't learn their job until 18 months or later. Some puppies are started on luring at 5-6 weeks old.

Many HOTs and working breeders bring all dogs up the same, sport, LE, pet, SAR... The foundation for a good dog is the same. Some trainers imprint certain behaviors or work on prey drive early, but it's not like there is some set schedule for training. A good dog can do the work.

What drives a young dog to be aggressive can be a multitude of things. It's not always rank driven. It's not always fear. It's not always any particular motivation, which is why there is more than 1 training method for dogs. Suggesting the owner act submissive is poor advice that could lead to dangerous behavior from the dog.

Most military and LE dogs are trained in the same manner as board and train. A group of people train the dog and then a handler takes possession of the trained dog, applying principles, communication techniques and methods of control taught to the dog by others. To state that this is impossible is incorrect. It happens every day, successfully. I have trained over 200 dogs and passed them off to handlers that have successfully worked those dogs at a high level of proficiency.

I think the worst thing the OP can do is stop behaving like a leader and start demonstrating submissive behavior around the dog. You are right that the dog will be confused. How is this supposed to remedy a situation where the dog needs clear and concise leadership?

David Winners
02-08-2014 06:58 PM
Baillif I'm not safeguarding a business. It will take far more than a wall of paragraphless text to bring down board and trains. The person the OP went to get help from is an IPO champion who knows exactly what he is doing, and doesn't harbor any weird notions that would stand in the way of getting his job done.
02-08-2014 03:23 PM
David Taggart Well, in other thread I have met a whole pack of strays... Any time, when the matter concernes money making (board training in this case, and PP training there) I meet some "noble Cerberus" guarding not his principes, but some business.
A sports dog is brought up as a sports dog from the very first day you get him, Schutzhund obedience strarts at 3 months of age. Probably, world class trainer just assumed what the dog could have been in different hands(?) I have no right to judge, because I have never met him.
I don't have any demo dog. My dog is my tool in training owners and their young dogs, they simply start copying Lucy at one moment. But that, of course, doesn't concern the issue of a dominant dog in the family.
What drives a young male to behave agressively to the members of the family - is his fear, fear to lose his position next to the owner, whose behaviour he copies. Remove the competition, and this fear will dissapear. OP, he is competing for your love, because you are a king for him. Every time you kiss your wife or your daughter it draws a jealous look out of your dog, that's why he wants to abuse them. Nobody can train him, only you. If you could change your attitude towards not only your dog, but your wife and especially your daughter, not treating them as someone who always has to be told, but someone equal to you. Stop behaving like a head of the family in your dog presence, play submissive to your daughter, try for a week, and see what will happen. It will confuse your dog tremendously.
02-08-2014 12:48 PM
Jax08
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
Other than that look at the facilities. Will they even let you see the dogs in training? Are the facilities clean? Are the dogs coming out of training happy looking while performing behaviors or do they look suppressed or scared? Do they offer continued support and trouble shooting for behavioral issues? How many handler sessions do they offer? Are the trainers balanced and knowledgeable about all forms of training or are they some cookie cutter trainers from some hack 2 week franchise training program?

Don't be fooled by a single demo dog as a lot of trainers will buy one that was trained somewhere else and pass it off as their own because they can't actually create it themselves (we've sold them.) If they can't show off an advanced trainee or several demo dogs don't let that one sucker you in.
Thank You! I think many people get stuck on the horror stories and most people, newbies like myself, would not know what to look for. this is very helpful.
02-08-2014 10:05 AM
Blanketback I don't know how experienced you are, OP. So don't take this as an insult in any way, because I sure don't mean anything other that help

What I'm thinking is that while you board your pup (I really hope you do) you read lots of books that John recommends to you, books that support his theory and training philosophy. The reason is, your pup will be coming home with another attitude - and it's only fair to him that you receive him with a new attitude too.

What gives me the idea that you (as well as your wife) need to change is that every single thing you do is communicating with your dog. So when you said you called your dog back to you and he put his head on your feet - to me that's wrong. To me that doesn't say "wow dog, did you ever just mess up!" and this is what you need to learn. Also, you said he growls at the cats. You shouldn't be letting him get away with this either.

Good luck with the board and train! Please come back and update all of us with your success story. It's nice to hear the good side of things once in a while.
02-08-2014 08:18 AM
lsatov I have trained with John, excellant read of dogs and their handlers. clear concise communicator.
02-08-2014 08:09 AM
DonnaKay As something to work on while looking for a trainer, ask your wife to give this technique a try. It will help teach your dog to yield to your wife, rather than trying to dominate her.

02-08-2014 07:33 AM
Baillif He is a world class trainer and IPO competitor and while I'm more of a ringsport guy yeah I knew who he was which was why I chuckled a little. If he says he can help he isn't lying. People throw money at a trainer like that all day everyday.

And taggart you're wrong. Dogs handle separation from owner just fine they are very adaptable. Any dog trainer worth a **** knows enough learning theory and practical application of that theory to train across any breed of dog. Maltese, beagle, gsd, mastiff it doesn't matter. They all learn the same way even if the methods used need to change or be adapted.
02-08-2014 01:27 AM
Ltleo My wife as much as she loves him, has never been a big dog kind of person lol, she has always been a cat person. In fact that's how we met at petco, lol durring a picture fund raiser for shelters and I had my past shephered with me. I can tell she is intimidated by Easton cause she says he is so big and ruff. He is just hard boned and doesn't know his own strength lol, cause he really is a big goof ball and comical for belly rubs. My daughter is timet of him also, thus I think he picks up on it.
I plan on taking tons of notes lol. We also talked about training Easton in some type of sport work to give both of us a working goal together. Plus I'm leaning in having John train me as a trainer, through his program. Have you herd of him before I listed him? It's funny, I could never find anything about him before I was given his contact info. As I was looking for a while for a good trainer that could mentor and teach us near me. The only thing I kept coming across was rejose I think his name was? Very good also, just over booked and to far for me to drive. How long have you trained and where are you located if you don't mind me asking.. Actually kraftwerk put me in touch with John, as they were helping me via phone calls and emails. They suggested that I try him instead of putting Easton through the stress of a flight to them. I was impressed as they didn't try to make money by having me fly there and train. I believe they know each other via competing in Europe.
02-07-2014 11:49 PM
Baillif You'll be in good hands with him and will have the opportunity to learn from one of the best. Just take notes ask a lot of questions and make sure your wife is on board with the changes that will happen after.
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