|Today 07:54 AM|
I feel that all animals know when another animals die. If you watch wolf documentaries....a large percent oft be time, the animals they kill to eat had something wrong with them.
I know animals feel pain, I have witnessed our dogs cry out when they step on something while running in the woods. I don't think animals sit and think about death. Yes, they have instincts....that push them to survival but I don't think they sit around thinking about death. Have you ever killed a spider? A venomous snake? Like I said before I think all animals grieve....a story when our family went to a island in South Carolina. We passed a dead cotton mouth in the road, another cotton mouth was laid across the back of the dead snake. Over 3 hours later, we passed by it again. The exact same position...lots of people believe snakes have no emotions...but it seems to me they may have the same grieving ability as other animals. My daughter had a snake for 8 years....the snake loved attention and came to the top of the tank to be held and soak in the sun outside. The snake never missed a meal, had a huge tank, lots of climbing displays and never was left to be completely alone.
We mourned the snake as we would a dog! She has never been replaced because she was so unique and loved by us. Some would say that was cruel because she was in a tank, but our daughter learned so much and she cared for the snake like it was a child. She also got many other kids through out her school years to not be afraid of snakes and I know saved a few snake lives when parents would have killed them instead of hearing they were harmless and allowing them to remain alive.
I did save the snake from the middle of the road on the island, my daughter was in tears scared it would meet the same death at the first snake. I have saved many snakes from roads throughout our community! Some laugh at us, some say they would kill a snake in their area, we don't judge them. Some don't take the time to learn about them and it's easier to kill all than learn....this is where understanding and respect for others comes into play. I am not an AR activist, but I have saved dangerous snakes from certain death....because I had the ability. I know 2 AR activist....they both said those snakes should have died because they are dangerous. How is it most AR people just want certain animals saved and think other animals are expendable? I don't think you can have it both ways...also...You have to consider people who wear leather shoes, even if it is just the soles...wallets, purses, car seats....all of these AR people wearing expensive shoes, carrying expensive bags, and driving around in cars with leather seats! All of these things use animals skins....they are not faux leather...they are real leather. So I am not sure who you are following in this movement...but most vegans claim to want animals safe but get in a car with lots of leather seats and details, wear shoes that are leather and carry designer purses that are made with a animal skins. Seriously....stop judging others for their choices, if everyone were to tend to their own business the world would be a much better place. Don't push your own ideas and opinions off on others. Don't harass others for personal choices. I save any animal I can, we rescue and foster...we own pets....we also wear shoes made of leather, have leather seats in our cars and have bags made of leather. If they are going to kill a cow to eat the meat, why waste any part of it??? I believe like most hunters, use everything that can be used, don't waste any part of the animal...when you waste it, that's when it becomes killing for fun....
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|Today 03:03 AM|
|volcano||I was the one whos post got erased on page one but I swear I hit the nail on the head. Btw its past MY bedtime.|
|Today 02:52 AM|
Yup animals really don't have concept of death. No screaming whimpering being next to dead bodies. Also pigs have intelligence of a 3-year-old. Also are social butterflies like dogs would make great companions too!
Bella (dog) mourns death of Beavis (beaver) - YouTube
Touching Footage Of Elephants "Saying Goodbye" To Dead Young - YouTube
Blackfish - YouTube
Chimps "Mourn" Nine-year-old's Death? - YouTube
Pig slaughter 10 - YouTube
|Yesterday 09:57 PM|
My brother's chickens all got slaughtered by a raccoon. It managed to get at them. Made a bloodbath of them. It did not kill them all to eat them all.
But that is ok. Because it is an animal killing other animals just for the sport of it. Whatever.
An animal is blessed without an understanding about death. They do not want to die is incorrect. They do not understand the concept. When bitch loses a puppy, she counts them, she is concerned with each one. Sometimes bitches will stop tending one because it has issues. If a pup doesn't make it, we have to take the poor thing out of there while her attention is on another pup, because they will become worried and it can make her more stressed.
But they do not understand concepts like dying. They understand pain. They understand familiar people and critters. They understand a lot of things, but not death. So if you raise a critter up, give it a good life so that it is healthy and of the proper size and weight, and then you slaughter it, so that it never knew what hit it. I can't see how that is objectionable.
Lobobear, if you were infested with fleas or lice, or had worms in you, would you kill them? How would that be ok? I mean, they have life too. And if you kill them, then you are denying them their right to life. If you are for animal rights, then don't forget that you will make it so that people cannot kill roaches or rats, fleas and lice, either.
|Yesterday 09:17 PM|
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|Yesterday 09:02 PM|
|alexg||Not too long ago several AR crazies in Germany broke the fence in the pig farm to 'free' the animals. As a reward they all got trampled to death by the freedom loving pigs...|
|Yesterday 08:56 PM|
I agree there are some very questionable farming practices but ceasing to eat meat in order to address these is ridiculous. Education, tough penalties for those doing the wrong thing, and supporting farmers who are doing the right thing seems a much more balanced approach IMO
|Yesterday 05:51 PM|
I've only had big one animal that was hurt enough that it didn't live to butcher age...our pigs escaped once and one got trampled by my gigantic Holsteiner gelding and ended up with a broken back leg (and likely internal bleeding as well) Sonic was about half way to butcher age. My kids were devastated that he had been hurt and had to be shot (and buried) although they had no issue with butchering itself when we rounded up his littermates a few months later. It was a different deal when he was hurt.
Now that I think about it Im not even sure why we buried him lol we coulda roasted him I suppose but it was sad he'd been hurt. Had a whole funeral and the whole nine yards He even got a rock headstone that the kids painted.
So much for unfeeling farmers! lmao
Went back and edited to add that I had only had 1 big animal die. We lost at least 1 chick every year from our meat birds (25) lost a bunch of turkeys the only year we tried to do them (turkeys are right up there with the dumbest animals Ive ever seen) we lost the occasional laying hen to coyotes and one year all our duck babies died but we never figured out why. Animals die on farms, not necessarily from abuse or neglect. Stuff happens that you can't control.
|Yesterday 05:42 PM|
Agreed.....we visit local farms just so the kids can see farm life...as an educational tool....I have loved what I see. The animals are animals and well taken care of...and then used for the purpose they are there for. The farms we have been to feed top grains and hay...animals have tons of room to roam and the have clean water, shelter and room to be animals.
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|Yesterday 05:02 PM|
Most small butchers support small scale farming or are butchering their own livestock. Even small butchers in urban centers =)
In case you aren't sure where to get ethically farmed meat.
And just so everyone here who hasn't been on a farm knows...99% of the small farms out there are ethical. Yes, their animals are treated like animals but these animals are the farmers livelihood. It makes NO sense to abuse them in any way shape or form. It just causes more bills and more issues. They don't farm on a scale where vet costs and such can be absorbed. Where the death of an animal through neglect is acceptable. They need these animals to stay healthy and live long enough to be butchered.
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