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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-01-2014 07:36 PM
Msmaria Sorry forgot to mention that I ordered the books control unleashed and the cautious canine.

Yes u are right he was not engaging with me especially after corrections. I have been working with him on engagement while playing and doing some training on my own at the park.
02-01-2014 07:19 PM
JanaeUlva A concept I have learned from my Schutzhund trainer and is also principle to Michael Ellis's training is this one word: Engagement. Once you have total engagement training is going to be way more fun and successful. Until I have great engagement I don't bother with training obedience behaviors.

From reading your posts, it sounds like the dog is not engaged and any corrections are just going to lower drive and engagement. The distraction and ground sniffing very well can be avoidance behavior and is another example of the dog's mental state during the training - stressed.

As someone else mentioned, if it were me I would take a big step back and build back trust, build engagement, and train to bring up drive, which enhances engagement. I'm not saying corrections should never be used but of I see a dog that is not engaged, not in drive and showing avoidance while training then I would not be doing corrections to "fix" it because it generally won't.

Play play play! Build back your dog's trust and enjoyment for being with you. Key - Keep training short, high energy and fun. I also like to use breakfast and/or dinner to do food training (particularly with young dogs). Again, short sessions and use the food to build drive. Use food as you would a toy to make drive - don't just feed it to them make them move for it. There is good information out there on how to make food an "active" reward, which increases it's value for creating drive.

The thing is, every dog is a little different and every trainer has different skill levels in reading a dog, timing, etc. so sometimes techniques that work for one person and their dogs is just not going to be right for another person and their dog.

Good luck! And happy training!

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02-01-2014 05:46 PM
Msmaria Thanks to evetyone with their advice, im so happy to day, Dex did sooooo much better this week. I took a step back and stopped doing the martingale corrections, went back to the flat collar using the jingle of his tags as a correction,played with him several times during the week at the same park that we practice at, use some boiled chicken for treats. I didnt have to slow down the training this time, I was able to keep up with the class. I don't know how he will do next week. but this week he did so well that they used him twice as the demo dog.
01-27-2014 09:08 PM
Cassidy's Mom I have no problem with corrections in general, but my bias is always going to be towards motivational training. The more I can make my dogs WANT to engage with me, the more I can show them that it's in their best interest to do what I want because that's the path to get what THEY want, the fewer corrections I need to use for non-compliance. For that reason it just makes sense to train as reward based as I can, and only use corrections when I feel I must.

If your dog is clearly not happy and having fun in training, it seems likely he's getting too many corrections and not enough rewards, which means that he's put in situations where he's likely to fail, rather than being set up to succeed.

If he's not sitting in class (a simple command, and probably one of the first things you taught him), and he's more interested in sniffing the floor or pulling towards the agility area, then there might be too much going on in the environment for him to focus and obey commands. Correcting him for that doesn't seem to be helping, so try something else.

Jane mentioned Control Unleashed, an excellent book by Leslie McDevitt. One thing Leslie is really adamant about is that when you train in a new, more distracting environment, if your dog is distracted or worried, or showing signs of stress, you lower the criteria. That means that maybe you go back to luring a sit for awhile, maybe you up your reinforcement schedule, even for things that he should already "know", that wouldn't need to be reinforced in a less distracting environment such as around the house.
01-27-2014 04:59 PM
Msmaria Hi David we have been doing NILIF since i joined this site last year.

@ Gretchen. Im going to try another day with all the advice here, if it doesnt help, then Im going to stop taking him to this specific class and just use that time to play more.
01-27-2014 04:18 PM
David Taggart Read about NILIF training. I'd say no more.
01-27-2014 03:33 PM
Gretchen I would take a break from training. And then can you just do a different type of training like nosework or agility?
01-27-2014 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
You have to teach the "No sulking" command. JK!!!

I had some problems with my pup when we were training in a park. I did feel bad for him because here was this great open area, but we hopped out of the truck and went straight into OB. I started going 1/2 an hour earlier to let him smell the squirrel poo and play with the leaves, and this made a huge difference in his attitude. Maybe that would help you too?
I will do that this sat. What is about squirrel poop that so fascinating?(rhetorical question) lol. I bet if we used that in nosework hed find it yards away.
01-27-2014 02:40 PM
Blanketback You have to teach the "No sulking" command. JK!!!

I had some problems with my pup when we were training in a park. I did feel bad for him because here was this great open area, but we hopped out of the truck and went straight into OB. I started going 1/2 an hour earlier to let him smell the squirrel poo and play with the leaves, and this made a huge difference in his attitude. Maybe that would help you too?
01-27-2014 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by Daniellezeus View Post
I think you should spend lots of time just playing with him in the park, on walks, etc. Bring his favorite toys/treats, find a nice open place and just stand there. Don't give him any corrections. Just stand there and let him look around or sniff. When he finally looks at you have a party! Bring out the toy or the treats and run/play with him. It may take a while, but he should start looking at you more. You can do this outside of class to encourage engagement. Micheal Ellis has a video demonstrating this. I'll see if I can find it.
I know which one your talking about, its very good. My class was going way to fast for me to stop and engage with him after a command. but I agree my dog needs more fun. I think he associates this class now with corrections. i have to change that. I wasnt sure if i should stay on the corrections at his age, and not baby him. But after all the comments from you guys, I am going to stop and make it fun for him. Like doggie dad said if he can learn just one command a month it adds up to alot.
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