German Shepherd Dog Forums - Reply to Topic

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Thread: Wolves and Domestic Dogs Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces):
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-19-2014 11:52 AM
Gwenhwyfair Guys, not saying you shouldn't post, just a heads up that this thread is several months old....
05-19-2014 11:47 AM
Mishka&Milo I watched a documentary on this... It was explained as this.... Dogs never completely grow out of the puppy brain. They will always be more dependent on someone else. You can also take a young wolf, and a young dog... Raised with the exact same human contact... place a piece of food in a cage and let them go.... The wolf will be relentless and never asking of help. It will just keep trying to pry the door open, while the dog.... After trying for a few moments.... Will look to the human for assistance.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
05-19-2014 11:03 AM
Freestep
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyTheGSD View Post
They said that if they are harsh enough with the wolf, it would learn to listen. And if you raise it from a puppy, like a domestic dog, it would be just like a domestic dog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draugr View Post
Being "harsh" with a wolf is going to get your friend killed. What limited training CAN be done with wolves & wolf hybrids is most successful in completely the opposite direction.

Dogs have been selectively bred and domesticated for submission to humans. Wolves will give you a VERY nasty authority challenge that will land you in the hospital if you are lucky!
Yep. The idea that "it's all how you raise them" and the idea that a wolf will be a good pet if you're "harsh enough" are the romantic fantasies of an inexperienced dolt with absolutely no understanding of canine behavior.
I assume this is a young person.

When I was 19, I was that romantic dolt, and thought having a wolfdog as a pet would be the coolest thing ever. Others warned me, but being 19, I knew everything already and thought *my* wolf would be different! Other people just didn't know how to raise 'em right! Predictably, getting a wolfdog was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made and one of my worst regrets.

The breeder made me take him home at 4 weeks of age so that he would "bond" with me. I already had a GSD mix at the time, so the pup would have a canine buddy. The wolfdog worshipped my GSD mix and pretty much ignored me. He was cute, and friendly, and loved people and other dogs when he was young. He also chewed through doors, ate trees, the siding off the house, and constantly escaped the yard. He screamed and howled if left alone. He knew "sit" and "lie down" if you had a treat for him, otherwise he pretty much did what he felt like.

He got me kicked out of my rental, and at 10 months of age I had to give him up, as I became homeless. I gave him to a couple who lived in the mountains, which I thought was great, until I went up to visit him and found him chained to a tree with an empty water trough. He subsequently escaped that home and wound up about 20 miles away across the canyon, at a home where a female wolfdog was living. They liked him and asked to keep him, I of course was only too happy to say yes. I visited him often and he seemed to be getting on well in that home.

Then one day while I was volunteering at the local animal shelter, I saw him in one of the kennels. Seems he and the female had gotten loose and were harassing a neighbor's chickens. The female was shot and killed, so in fear for his life, the family took him to the shelter. He was adopted by some folks who were moving to acreage in Washington and I can only hope he lived out the rest of his life well.

Feel free to share this story with your friend, and expect them to say "But THIS time it'll be different, because I'm going to do it right!" But thinking that you can tame, train and make a wolf into a pet by being "harsh" is going to get your friend seriously hurt or killed. Mark my words.
05-19-2014 10:50 AM
glowingtoadfly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan_GSD_mom View Post
I think I started this controversy, and after reading some of these posts, I first decided not to respond, because I am not trying to raise anyone's hackles, I also believe that we can learn from each other SO much, and there is no room for bickering, etc.

However, I decided I would like to add a few words here, because I think there are too many generalities--I hate generalities, they're never accurate.

I think the question was asked, why a wolf anyway? Well, I wouldn't have a pure wolf. They are wild animals and should live where they were meant to live, I don't even like to see them in zoos. Yes, they can be trusted when they accept you as a pack member, but you have to really understand the dynamics of a wolf pack, and understand all the postering, true canine behavior, etc. A number of people have done that, with one man actually living in the wild with them. They are affectionate, loyal, intelligent, and their family structure has actually been studied to further understand human dynamics.

The canines I have posted about have been wolf/GSD crosses, with the lowest wolf content of mine being 50%. Also, I have never had over 75%--I have other responsibilities, and would not have had the time to devote--that would be a full time vocation.

In one of my posts I pointed out that I did not, and would not, debate the issue of breeding dogs to wolves. They can be bred, and the resulting offspring are NOT hybrids (hybrids are almost always sterile--mules, for example). In fact, the DNA between a dog and a wolf is so close that examining DNA of a wolf dog cannot tell you whether it does or does not carry wolf blood, it will only tell you who the mother and father are if you have their DNA. The head of our animal control, in a casual conversation with me a few years ago (not because there was ever a problem with my animals) pointed out that, yes, there were lots of good people who were responsible caretakers for wolfdogs. But the fact that we purchased them from breeders encouraged irresponsible breeders, those who sold puppies to just anyone, regardless whether they could offer a good, responsible and caring home. I couldn't offer an argument to that, although the same can be said for any large, aggressive dog breed, we see rescues and shelters full of them.

His comment did make me think, however, and the last wolf shepherd I opened my home to was a rescue.

Why do we love them as we do? Contrary to what some have posted here (and I speak from personal experience) they ARE deeply loyal, they love children they are raised with (with proper supervision, just like with any large breed), they are extremely intelligent and affectionate. No, they are not always obedient, they are not always protective (it's often like, "umm, you're the alpha, I think you should handle this, let me get behind you..."), they require a LOT of time and attention, you aren't going to get many get-away vacations--but there are humans who make sacrifices to enjoy the privilege of sharing their lives with these animals. No, they are not for everyone, but neither are GSDs, pit bulls, rotties, dobies, mastiffs, malamutes, malinois, huskies--the list could go on.

So, for the sake of being peaceful, I won't post anything more about the wolf shepherds who shared my life in the past, and I will happily sit back and learn more here about the care and training of my favorite dog breed, the working line GSD. (Sorry for the length of this post!)

Susan
Please continue posting about your wolfdogs. I love reading about them!
05-19-2014 06:32 AM
Baleato Books on wolves by David Mech are also great reading.
Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation: L. David Mech, Luigi Boitani: 9780226516974: Amazon.com: Books Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation: L. David Mech, Luigi Boitani: 9780226516974: Amazon.com: Books
05-19-2014 06:28 AM
Baleato
Dominance in dogs- fact or fiction?

DOMINANCE IN DOGS - FACT OR FICTION? - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com

This book "Dominance in dogs- fact or fiction?" by Barry Eaton is a great, concise summary of the differences between dogs and wolves and how it affects our training methods. It covers how some of the training methods commonly used are based on misconceptions of wolf behavior caused by studying unnatural, captive wolf packs.

I highly recommend it.
01-26-2014 03:26 PM
Draugr
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyTheGSD View Post
A friend of mine wants a wolf, and I told them this. They didn't believe me.
They said that if they are harsh enough with the wolf, it would learn to listen. And if you raise it from a puppy, like a domestic dog, it would be just like a domestic dog.
I wish they could just talk to a wolf expert and get this information in person. Maybe they'd finally get it through their thick skulls.
Being "harsh" with a wolf is going to get your friend killed. What limited training CAN be done with wolves & wolf hybrids is most successful in completely the opposite direction.

Dogs have been selectively bred and domesticated for submission to humans. Wolves will give you a VERY nasty authority challenge that will land you in the hospital if you are lucky!
01-26-2014 12:30 AM
HarleyTheGSD Thank you both for the replies. I'll show them your posts. I want this friend to actually understand what a wolf is.
01-25-2014 12:56 PM
havery
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyTheGSD View Post
A friend of mine wants a wolf, and I told them this. They didn't believe me.
They said that if they are harsh enough with the wolf, it would learn to listen. And if you raise it from a puppy, like a domestic dog, it would be just like a domestic dog.
I wish they could just talk to a wolf expert and get this information in person. Maybe they'd finally get it through their thick skulls.
Just like all those people that raised lion cubs from babies. "Oh, if I raise them tame they'll be good pets!" Years later, we see them in the headlines. "Local man in critical condition after lion attack." Wolves are no different.

Growing up, I had an uncle who had a wild animal permit. He took in rescues (native and exotic) from these idiots until they were rehabilitated enough to go to a wildlife reserve. I can't count how many coyote and bobcat babies people thought they could tame, until the bobcat ate their Pomeranian (true story!). He even raised a pair of Bengal tiger cubs from a bottle, and they were still very much wild animals, even at just 4 months old. As a kid, it was the single coolest thing to get to experience those animals, but it also gave me a healthy respect for the "wild" in wild animal.

I had someone give me a wolf/GSD hybrid as a week old puppy who's mother abandoned them, and he helped me raise him. That was the most challenging animal I've ever owned, I could not have done it without expert help. He was three when I went off to college and my uncle still has him, he's old now but still very wolf-y. You can just see it in his eyes. Anyone that thinks he'd make a good family pet is an idiot. No doubt he was a fun companion and I love him, but he had zero tolerance for small children, and the only other pet we could have was my female mastiff mix who he looked up to like his mother. He had to go in the barn if we had company and couldn't have packages delivered. I won't ever have another, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without experience with wild animals.
01-25-2014 12:02 PM
martemchik Tell them to check out "Nova: Dogs Decoded" on Netflix. Really simple and interesting show. Really covers the differences between wild canines and domesticated ones.

They ran an experiment where the same people raised puppies, then raised wolves, and compared the behavior. Wolves just didn't listen. No matter what. They just didn't care. Even at like 3-4 months, nothing mattered but what they wanted. Dogs on the other hand...well, we know how dogs act.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com