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Thread: Boom Lakes and Wild Winds Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-07-2014 05:20 PM
imtherookie LOL!! My nephew's an OPP might be something to consider, I can say that my dogs aren't scared or nervous I have had people enter my husbands shop on occasion when no one was there with no warning, only to be slammed up on the wall with a nice set of canines holding them there never pierced the skin but had nice firm grips!! I think this could be discussed all day long and there is no right or wrong side to it!! I have seen K9 dogs try to tear their handlers apart, a few detachments up north had to get rid of their dogs as they were off the wall and had no control! I like what I have much better ....I can trust my dogs and I know what they will do!! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and everyone wants something different! Most of my pups go to pet homes some have gone to breeders. I love my dogs they are part of our family and that is my curse cause I will probably end up with 101 GSD's cause as they retire they stay here except for a very select few!! If I was younger and had more time and money I probably would have traveled and competed but this is my thing, my alternative....doesn't make it wrong!
01-31-2014 06:50 AM
Wolfenstein
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
It would be more instructive to say, "why do you look for titles" or "why do you look for OFA" and learn about the criteria you use to help evaluate.
This this this this this!!

I've personally developed my standard that I hold breeders to over the last near decade I've been studying dogs. In that time, I've gone back and forth an awful lot in what I view to be ethical breeding, learned an insane amount about health and what the different tests mean (in terms of genetics and passing traits on as opposed to "This breed gets X, this breeder tests for X," without knowing how X is even passed on), and really, really learned that not everything is black and white. I used to have a mental checklist where I felt I NEEDED to see certain things when I looked at a breeder, but then I realized (for me) that a person that has a true understanding of health, a true understanding of temperament, and a CLEAR vision and plan in their breeding (not just throwing dogs together because their titles look good) is much more important than an impressive pedigree. A person that handles their own dog, has raised multiple SchH dogs, and successfully bred (and placed!) previous litters is going to know when it's "ok" to use a dog that hasn't necessarily gotten a high SchH3 yet in breeding rather than the person who just went out and purchased an adult who already had that title.

That's just one little example, but there are definitely people who would wholeheartedly disagree with me on that last statement, and that is great! Everyone needs to develop their OWN ethics and understanding when it comes to breeding. Talking to people about WHY they choose what they choose is much more helpful than a blanket, "Is this breeder ethical, yes or no," because it is SO subjective per person. I think maybe this is where some lines are getting crossed when you're asking about breeders, Lobo, and people keep saying, "Do more research." It's ok to be unsure between working and show lines, for example, but that's why you go and learn as much as you can about those dogs, meet as many different ones as you can from as many lines as you can, and see if you can connect the dogs you prefer. For me, I've worked with many, many different GSDs (I'm a groomer) and have gone to multiple dog shows and went out to visit a SchH group train. For ME, all of the dogs that seemed to exhibit the traits we would be looking for were all working line dogs. So that seemed like a huge clue for me!

I'm PRETTY sure I've gone off on a tangent! haha But I hope I clarified a little bit on the research end of things.
01-31-2014 06:12 AM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Sometimes by a person who expects to buy a completely flawless dog (which is nearly impossible and certainly impossible to predict with a puppy) or thinks something perfectly fine is a defect (like the"high drive black sable working line puppy" who (surprise) turns you into a pincushion .

Hahaha... be careful what you ask for, you just may get it

David Winners
01-31-2014 05:48 AM
jocoyn There are probably a lot of breeders at all levels. But if you ask on the forum about a certain breeder, it is not good form do discuss negatives about someone and, actually, saying negative things about a breeder is against board rules.

For one thing, there are always three sides to an argument "yours, mine, and the truth" and half the time one of the two people involved is not even on the board.

To me the best way to evaluate a breeder on this board is to do a search for their name and send a PM to people with their dogs, but realize you are getting a small sampling. Then we have the guidance on things to look for. I really would not do that until money is in hand and the purchase is visible on the horizon.

It would be more instructive to say, "why do you look for titles" or "why do you look for OFA" and learn about the criteria you use to help evaluate. I have seen some highly esteemed breeders known for their dogs and knowledge slammed because someone with a tiny amount of knowledge "knew better". When you get to where you are going to buy, it is fine to ask "what do you think about this pedigree" or even the breeder and ask for PMs

We have to run a fine line here on breeder bashing as it gets out of hand on other forums. I will say that any breeder who is known to the public is going to have at least one scathing review by a disgruntled customer. Sometimes valid, Sometimes by a person who expects to buy a completely flawless dog (which is nearly impossible and certainly impossible to predict with a puppy) or thinks something perfectly fine is a defect (like the"high drive black sable working line puppy" who (surprise) turns you into a pincushion .
01-31-2014 12:18 AM
Lobobear44 How many breeders are there on this forum?
01-30-2014 10:44 PM
Blitzkrieg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by imtherookie View Post
Lol!! I am going to agree with you to a certain extent on that...I live in the bush and surrounded by trees and wild life, my dogs keep us safe, they have the best of all worlds they hunt they guard and they are constantly watching!!!! Most areas and lakes around us have a major problem with wolves and such, I don't.... I have 10 neighbors on my lake none of which have ever been broken into nor had trouble with wildlife...now to you that probably means nothing but to me it means a whole lot!! They don't work in the field but they do for us at home!! Pet absolutely, part of my family, to me it's the next best thing to the working or show ring!!

Used to live on a farm in an area plagued with Coyote problems that had an American Eskimo dog on the property. The vicious little creature kept all the coyotes ...and people away from the sheep and chickens for years on his own.

What does it all mean? Not much to me..in terms of selecting breeding stock.

Now get someone in a bite suit and have them aggressively approach the property and dogs and video the results and you might have a good start.

I know the OPP have a dog detachment in South Porcupine. Im betting one of the handlers there would be willing to do some decoy work for you.

I dont think you necessarily need titles to breed a dog but until you actively train it in breed appropriate activities you dont know what have.

Fyi: By no means do I consider a show title anything to do with breeding GSDs but thats just me.
01-30-2014 09:10 PM
Liesje Lobo, good breeders don't cut corners. Most people are not independently wealthy and have to work, sometimes multiple jobs, to support their dogs and be able to health test, show, train, title, and breed survey them to the level that represents a strong breeding program. I don't personally believe that *every* breeding dog *must* possess a certain set of titles, but only consider puppies out of dogs without them from people who actually have participated in those venues and have a long history of owning those types of dogs and being active in the breed community.
01-30-2014 08:59 PM
Lobobear44
Quote:
Originally Posted by imtherookie View Post
Lol!! I am going to agree with you to a certain extent on that...I live in the bush and surrounded by trees and wild life, my dogs keep us safe, they have the best of all worlds they hunt they guard and they are constantly watching!!!! Most areas and lakes around us have a major problem with wolves and such, I don't.... I have 10 neighbors on my lake none of which have ever been broken into nor had trouble with wildlife...now to you that probably means nothing but to me it means a whole lot!! They don't work in the field but they do for us at home!! Pet absolutely, part of my family, to me it's the next best thing to the working or show ring!!
So if people have a question about breeders they ate thinking about. Would it be a good idea to talk to the breeders on here for advice or if there are tricky to define irresponsible or responsible?
Have found some and met one that seems tricky, although her dogs were amazing!
01-30-2014 07:51 PM
imtherookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
Hello, welcome to the forum. I am going to disagree with you on what is bettering the breed but in the end everything is relative.

If you dont work or compete with your stock you dont know what you have or if its breeding quality. I know Timmins is in the middle of nowhere I actually did some school up there. However, if your going to breed a working dog you need to actually WORK it IMO.

As for Kathy I like some of her dogs, she has a very nice male that has a lot of promise. I wish she would put some of the dogs into working venues where their quality can be proven and showcased.

Ultimately if you dont work your dog in a venue that tests its drives, nerves and breed specific traits you dont know anything about the dog other then its a nice pet.
Lol!! I am going to agree with you to a certain extent on that...I live in the bush and surrounded by trees and wild life, my dogs keep us safe, they have the best of all worlds they hunt they guard and they are constantly watching!!!! Most areas and lakes around us have a major problem with wolves and such, I don't.... I have 10 neighbors on my lake none of which have ever been broken into nor had trouble with wildlife...now to you that probably means nothing but to me it means a whole lot!! They don't work in the field but they do for us at home!! Pet absolutely, part of my family, to me it's the next best thing to the working or show ring!!
01-30-2014 06:50 PM
Blitzkrieg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by imtherookie View Post
Hello everyone, Boom Lake's here....I just want to say I agree whole heartedly with whoever said "How can you judge a breeder if you haven't met them or their dogs" You all don't know me or Kathy from Wild Winds, but my dogs are my pride and have been very special to me, I don't show as I have to work to support them, so I don't have the time nor the money! There is no venue in my area and it would entail too much traveling....AS you all know there is no money to be made in breeding good dogs and my dogs come first!! They do however come from good solid lines that boast many a champion, my clients keep in touch with me, most on a regular basis and I give support as long as they need it! As of yet no dogs have been returned to me due to medical or genetic problems, all my pups are guaranteed and I stand behind it!! My dogs are all raised on a raw and very healthy diet, I am only trying to better the breed that I love, having said that I have to admit I am not so fond of what it has become and I think that as representatives of the breed we should all be more careful about the dogs that we are breeding, sound minds and bodies are most important, to me anyhow!! And I would not ship a pup to California way to stressful!! BC too!!
Anyhow just wanted to put my 2 cents in as I said earlier you all don't know me, so all minds at ease I hope cause anyone south of the border that wants one of my dogs will have to drive to come get it!!

Hello, welcome to the forum. I am going to disagree with you on what is bettering the breed but in the end everything is relative.

If you dont work or compete with your stock you dont know what you have or if its breeding quality. I know Timmins is in the middle of nowhere I actually did some school up there. However, if your going to breed a working dog you need to actually WORK it IMO.

As for Kathy I like some of her dogs, she has a very nice male that has a lot of promise. I wish she would put some of the dogs into working venues where their quality can be proven and showcased.

Ultimately if you dont work your dog in a venue that tests its drives, nerves and breed specific traits you dont know anything about the dog other then its a nice pet.
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