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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-27-2015 11:32 AM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonevintage View Post
Yo Chip It was a statement, not a challenge. I will not be able to stop my dog or keep her behind me with an aggressive dog threatening us. I would also not want her passive and afraid to defend herself because she was given a command to stay behind me. I don't know how I would stop an aggressive dog from attacking should they ignore my verbal warning and aggressive body posture.

A walking stick - air horn - spray, I don't know - those are engaged when the attack is seconds away or already happening. There is no "daddy" here to handle it for my girl - she has an old lady senior at the other end of the leash. Would bypassers help? Doubt it.

Because of that, what works for you (because you are physically able to take on an attacking dog) would not work for me. I am not among the peas crowd. Remember, I'm the one that upset everyone by saying I carry an ice pick.....
Opps so sorry, classics board example of a "friendly fire incident!"

I extend my deepest apoligizies! And I'll take this lesson to heart!
08-26-2015 07:06 PM
Stonevintage Yo Chip It was a statement, not a challenge. I will not be able to stop my dog or keep her behind me with an aggressive dog threatening us. I would also not want her passive and afraid to defend herself because she was given a command to stay behind me. I don't know how I would stop an aggressive dog from attacking should they ignore my verbal warning and aggressive body posture.

A walking stick - air horn - spray, I don't know - those are engaged when the attack is seconds away or already happening. There is no "daddy" here to handle it for my girl - she has an old lady senior at the other end of the leash. Would bypassers help? Doubt it.

Because of that, what works for you (because you are physically able to take on an attacking dog) would not work for me. I am not among the peas crowd. Remember, I'm the one that upset everyone by saying I carry an ice pick.....
08-26-2015 06:33 PM
Chip18 Hmmm not really sure if this post is a statement or a challenge?? So I'll take a "moderate" tone.

But I will say that "this" is not the thread for folks who's physiosophy is:


Folks here for the most part seem to be like "me" and "Homie" and as I tend to say as of late...:



Pretty sure you will find no convert to the "peas" movement here! Just saying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonevintage View Post
There is no way that my dog will stand behind me with an aggressive dog or person rapidly approaching US.
That's a valid point and a good observation! And I do believe in keeping with my KISS principle in dog training easily explained!

I've posted this numerous times in the past. And how "I" accomplished the above is right here:

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog (the walking part )

My GSD did the rest! Dog encounters were not a consideration for us, people were! I simply "always" had him stay behind me, when I encountered his "issue" which were uh "anyone" other than me or my wife! As it happened he no problem with "other dogs" he was simply never given a chance to "decide" if other dogs were an "item" to be considered? We "ignored" other dogs...there was "nothing" to think about!"

Let "Daddy" deal. Daddy in front, "he" stands behind and waits. For Rocky it was simply a matter of "been there done this!" So when we got charged, I did what I do! No dogs get to mine without going through me! Period there is "nothing to be discussed or considered!"

So I said to him "Stay" and Rocky stood behind me while we were being charged! Maybe he "thought" OK a "situation" here, seen Daddy do this before, ...."nothing new here!" But, Daddy goes down while shielding him??? Well this is new??? Perhaps I need to make my "presence" more "obvious??"

So he stepped up.... "problem" solved!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonevintage View Post

I don't believe in training against my dog's survival skills if WE are attacked because his training is contradictory to defending himself. Yes, I look at it that way. The charging stray that does not heed human warnings and keeps coming - has no regard or respect for the human either and should be treated accordingly..... a danger to US.

Where I live, law endorsement stands 100% with any owner taking defensive action by any legal means if his dog is attacked while on a leash by uncontrolled unleashed dog or dogs. There are consequences and risks every time you choose to let your dog off leash or fail to provide proper containment on your property. You are at fault and you are responsible if your dog is loose and attacks another.
Yeah sorry but "crap like that is where the "Pea's" activists always go! "If your dogs aren't on leash, blah, blah, blah....

As it happens in my encounter, my dogs were both on leash, and this situation occurred at the Police sub-station and under full, observation of LE officers! The only one hurt was me! When I slipped on the ice and fell "because" of those dogs! "My odgs weren't hurt, I did not care about "anything other that Dad. I shouted "control your freaking...dogs!" And we moved on...never saw those dogs doing that again by the way!

But yeah, it was pretty much a law-suit (for me) made to order??? Not my concern, my dogs are! If a dog chooses to cross path with me and mine?? It will become quickly clear to "that" dog, that he has made "a very poor life's choice!!"

Dogs don't stop to consider the "consequences" of their actions?? If they did they would only target the "owners" of "Peas activist!"

I have no intentions of going to court and crying over pictures of my dogs carved up body, in court from "a bad encounter!"

If a dog chooses to target me or mine...that dog best be ready to deal, with the "consequences" of a bad life's choice! I'm not pulling out the smartphone and calling 911! As I say... "Homie don't Play!" "They" best believe that and chose their "victim's" with great care!

I trust I've made that pretty clear???
08-26-2015 11:12 AM
Stonevintage There is no way that my dog will stand behind me with an aggressive dog or person rapidly approaching US. I don't believe in training against my dog's survival skills if WE are attacked because his training is contradictory to defending himself. Yes, I look at it that way. The charging stray that does not heed human warnings and keeps coming - has no regard or respect for the human either and should be treated accordingly..... a danger to US.

Where I live, law endorsement stands 100% with any owner taking defensive action by any legal means if his dog is attacked while on a leash by uncontrolled unleashed dog or dogs. There are consequences and risks every time you choose to let your dog off leash or fail to provide proper containment on your property. You are at fault and you are responsible if your dog is loose and attacks another.

I agree many times owners get lazy and let their dog run just from the house to the car unleashed and that's where they loose control if someone is walking by with their dog. That's just as bad as the owner who doesn't care at all. They know they can't control their dog off leash and are only counting on their dog wanting to go for a car ride bad enough to stick close. Idiots.

It's time that these negligent dog owners find out that we have had enough and we will actively protect our dogs from theirs. I am sick of their idiot attitudes that cause these problems in the first place. Simply standing there and yelling for help does not work and it never will.
08-26-2015 10:49 AM
Nikitta My first dog that I owned was an irish setter. I had to move back home and my parents wanted me to get rid of him. I, instead was keeping him at a barn I was renting for my horse. The next barn over had a Doberman that was a nasty dog. He attacked the husband of woman I was sharing the barn with. He cornered him on top of his car. He would come over and attack my tied up dog. He was used to people being afraid of him. Not me. He came over one day and I picked up a pitch fork and dared him to come any closer. He tried to go around the car and I confronted him again. His idiot owner finally came and got him. You don't attack my dog.
08-26-2015 08:24 AM
Kyleigh I have to say, having been a "victim" of 5 completely random dog attacks (3 times in which I was bitten), the level of "aggression" I'm reading from some of owners (and not the dogs, the people) is pretty scary. The bites I received weren’t life threatening, I did get a tetanus shot after the first one to be one the safe side.

I'm 5 feet 4 inches, female, weigh about 120 pounds and I live in Ontario CANADA ... which means I have access and the legal right to ZERO weapons. I can't even carry bear spray. Mainly because I live in suburbia and there are no bears. A large walking stick is all I am permitted, or an umbrella.

CHIP - you mention your only concern is your dog and not the owner. Well, that's fine, but this is also a thread where the OP is asking for options on what you can do ... you continue to go on and on about how you don't care about the owner ... well, guess what? Some people do care, and in some places, depending on where you live you have to be very careful.

You also have to take into account that some owners are plain stupid and clueless and no matter what you do, it won’t matter.

If the owner of the unruly dog is a 90-pound, 89 year old lady / man are you going to go after them because they can’t control their dog?

There are so many variables in these kinds of situations that to constantly pound back at people that you ONLY care about YOUR dog and nothing else strikes me as very selfish, and also very sad … our society is so egocentric and selfish, that to read, on a wonderful forum, from someone who posts very often, and is probably looked at as a “role model” for some of the newbies … that you just don’t care about the people is a horrible thing to read.

When my dog and I were attacked, I was outraged, no doubt. I’m not a meek and mild person. BUT I do care that these people understand the entire situation, and recognize that their actions (or lack of) resulted in consequences and they are now liable.

I would hate to be in an area where someone’s dog bit / charged / pinned my dog, and all I had to do was whip out mace, lay into the dog (and hey, maybe the owner) and then just walk away.








08-26-2015 12:32 AM
sunsets I've had this happen. Here's what I did (may or may not be appropriate):

The scenario: 120 lb English Mastiff, 60-80 lb lab mix, and 50-60 lb yellow lab escape their yard just as I walk past with my dog on the leash.

The three of them run up to my GSD, and sniffing and posturing commences. I attempt to diffuse the situation by trying to remain calm and uttering soothing statements, like "Oh! Look! We have visitors! Hi guys!".

Didn't work. Someone snarled, and it was "on like Donkey Kong". My poor GSD ended up pinned to the ground, with the mastiff gnawing on his butt and the lab mix trying to rip his throat out. (Thankfully the other lab was content to observe and not participate).

I tried yelling, then screaming, for help, hoping that a neighbor might arrive with a hose or a bucket of water. No help was forthcoming Heinz was gasping for air at this point, so I grabbed the mutt by the scruff of her neck and hauled her back. I got lucky, she was re-adjusting her bite and I managed to pull her free and Heinz scrambled away. I then used my "BAD DOG" voice and postured at the other dogs until they backed off.

Very scary, and I was lucky I wasn't bitten. Heinz was fine except for a few little puncture wounds and the owner of the miscreants paid the vet bill (after I left a note telling her what happened)

The vet tech, upon hearing my tale of woe, recommended carrying a small air horn. She said it usually freaks dogs out enough that an impending fight can be avoided.
08-14-2015 09:34 PM
IronhorseRomo [quote=Chip18;7159874]As it happens...first my dog is "suppose" to stay behind me!

As it happens a couple weeks go I screwed up! While talking with my daughter in law, I broke all my own rules and a "known" pitt came bull rushing towards us!

Rocky was off leash and failed to stay behind me!

I stepped in front to stop the dog Rocky stepped forward beside me to see what the fuss was??? Rocky smiled in the charging dogs face and the dog stopped and sat down!

So it "appeared" that this pitt was a none, threat or did not expect "this" situation?? First a human and then a dog that did not do what he expected??

So "this" particular dog under those, circumstances was not a threat! I did not "know that" all I saw was a massive snarling pitt coming at my dog and in 16 years that was as close as a dog I did not know ever came to mind!! I was not happy with me or Rocky's failure to stay put!

I mumbled "control your dog to the neighbour and stormed off!


"MY ONLY CONCERN IS MY DOGS!!"I can't be any clearer than that! I don't give a crap about anyone or anything in that regard! I don't put my dogs in harms way and "I" expect others to do the same! But...perhaps this better explains:


Nope as I clearly stated, "I don't give a crap!" My job is to "protect my dogs!" And I take that job very seriously! People control there freaking "cur's" and they have no problems with me!

[quote=Dalko43;7159138]
Also, I wouldn't pretend to think that mace/pepper spray or bear spray is the end-all-be-all...I've seen full grown bears as well as smaller animals like pitbulls push through that stuff before...it all depends on the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
The whole point of "this" thread which you seem to miss?? Is what can people do to help their dogs if they encounter a situation?? Yes standing by and screaming for help as your dog gets ripped apart is also an available option! If you think that's a better alternative...then start a thread.

Hmm I never said "I" use Bear spray or weapons of any kind?? NV is an open carry state and people do carry! LF will shoot an uncontrolled dog coming after his, "problem solved!"

The size of my dogs has "zero" bearing for me! All dogs under my care get the same level of "protection" from me! From a Chi to a Bull Mastiff, it's not there job to fight with other people's dogs! If comes down to it, that's my job and yeah I take it seriously!


So we have extremes here. Some people carry some people don't, but the point of this thread is to do "something" to stop a situation! We all make our, on choices but "not knowing" how to do anything but stand by and scream helplessly is "not" a viable option...in my view!



Done and answered, "my" dogs not push by me! He stood next to me to see what the fuss was, and smiled at the offender!! Not a choice I was happy with but "Rocky defused the "situation,hmmm yet again!"



If dogs have "started" fighting...your to late!


I am sorry that happened! I know, that is "not"a plesent situation!

But you not going to change "minds" here! What I outlined is what I do with all my dogs but my Boxer (Struddell) if an unknow dog touched her??? Somebody is not going home that evening!!

I'm with you Chip! Me and my dogs safety are my only concern. I live in Texas. Texas has no problem when it comes to defending you or yours. Packing heat may not be for everyone. But I'm certainly not going to preach against how someone wants to defend themselves, legally. When you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Not being a responsible dog owner has gotten a lot of people in trouble. It's almost no different than raising kids. How you raise them, what you teach them, not allowing mistakes to go unnoticed or unchecked.
I left my Heeler in the backyard by herself for a few minutes. Next thing I know, she jumped the fence and has the mailman cornered. She got pepper sprayed. Completely my fault for not tying her up. It's my fault she got pepper sprayed. She was just doing her job. After all, she's only a dog. Unfortunately, some people aren't willing to take responsibility for their own actions.


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08-14-2015 04:04 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Okay, what happens when the other dog runs past you and gets to your dog...your dog just sits still and doesn't react?
As it happens...first my dog is "suppose" to stay behind me!

As it happens a couple weeks go I screwed up! While talking with my daughter in law, I broke all my own rules and a "known" pitt came bull rushing towards us!

Rocky was off leash and failed to stay behind me!

I stepped in front to stop the dog Rocky stepped forward beside me to see what the fuss was??? Rocky smiled in the charging dogs face and the dog stopped and sat down!

So it "appeared" that this pitt was a none, threat or did not expect "this" situation?? First a human and then a dog that did not do what he expected??

So "this" particular dog under those, circumstances was not a threat! I did not "know that" all I saw was a massive snarling pitt coming at my dog and in 16 years that was as close as a dog I did not know ever came to mind!! I was not happy with me or Rocky's failure to stay put!

I mumbled "control your dog to the neighbour and stormed off!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Other owners will become your problem if they don't like your decision to use bear spray/mace, especially if that mace affects them, which it likely will once they retrieve their dog (that stuff spreads easily). Not only could they call the cops, but they could try to escalate things (bring a gun or knife) which leads to a whole can of worms that no one wants.
"MY ONLY CONCERN IS MY DOGS!!"I can't be any clearer than that! I don't give a crap about anyone or anything in that regard! I don't put my dogs in harms way and "I" expect others to do the same! But...perhaps this better explains:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
If someone wants to carry mace or pepper spray for personal protection, that's their right and decision, but I would use that stuff as a last resort, not a preemptive measure.

If you're not worried about the legal or safety consequences of using that kind of measure, that's fine for you....I just wouldn't go around preaching that stuff to others like its a perfectly acceptable method, because its not.
Nope as I clearly stated, "I don't give a crap!" My job is to "protect my dogs!" And I take that job very seriously! People control there freaking "cur's" and they have no problems with me!

[quote=Dalko43;7159138]
Also, I wouldn't pretend to think that mace/pepper spray or bear spray is the end-all-be-all...I've seen full grown bears as well as smaller animals like pitbulls push through that stuff before...it all depends on the situation.
[QUOTE=Dalko43;7159138]The whole point of "this" thread which you seem to miss?? Is what can people do to help their dogs if they encounter a situation?? Yes standing by and screaming for help as your dog gets ripped apart is also an available option! If you think that's a better alternative...then start a thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
I'm glad that situation worked out for you, but not all situations go that way...especially if you are dealing with a particularly bigger and more dominant dog. And just because Rocky has never met his match (in terms of confidence and dominance) doesn't mean one doesn't exist...every owner likes to think that his dog his bravest most stout SOB on the block....even I am guilty of that
Hmm I never said "I" use Bear spray or weapons of any kind?? NV is an open carry state and people do carry! LF will shoot an uncontrolled dog coming after his, "problem solved!"

The size of my dogs has "zero" bearing for me! All dogs under my care get the same level of "protection" from me! From a Chi to a Bull Mastiff, it's not there job to fight with other people's dogs! If comes down to it, that's my job and yeah I take it seriously!


So we have extremes here. Some people carry some people don't, but the point of this thread is to do "something" to stop a situation! We all make our, on choices but "not knowing" how to do anything but stand by and scream helplessly is "not" a viable option...in my view!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Again, if another dog is particularly aggressive and stubborn and pushes past you, what is your dog supposed to do then?
Done and answered, "my" dogs not push by me! He stood next to me to see what the fuss was, and smiled at the offender!! Not a choice I was happy with but "Rocky defused the "situation,hmmm yet again!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post

If the dogs have started fighting, and its obvious neither one is inclined to run away, I would first call for help. If there is no help, try distracting or scaring off the other dog. If none of that is working, then and only then would I start to consider using force to dissuade the other dog from continuing his actions.
If dogs have "started" fighting...your to late!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
I've been caught in the middle of dog fights before (none of them were the fault of my dog, but other dogs which initiated the confrontation). In the first one, I tried pulling my dog away, but all that did was encourage the other dog to attack more. In another one, I tried separating the dogs one at a time. I separated mine by pulling him back...the other dog continued his attacks....I separated the other by pulling him back...my dog continued to fight.


In summary, it's very difficult to break up a dog fight by yourself...help from other people is usually the best solution.
I am sorry that happened! I know, that is "not"a plesent situation!

But you not going to change "minds" here! What I outlined is what I do with all my dogs but my Boxer (Struddell) if an unknow dog touched her??? Somebody is not going home that evening!!
08-14-2015 12:06 PM
Dalko43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
My dogs are suppose, to stay behind me! Leash or not if they don't and get sprayed...they are not likely to repeat breaking that rule again!
Okay, what happens when the other dog runs past you and gets to your dog...your dog just sits still and doesn't react?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Other owners are "not" my concern, my dogs are! Bear spray works on "owners" that continue to make poor choices also! If another owner chooses a course of action that will involve LE, that's their call! Protecting my dog is my "only" concern! I don't play around when my dogs are involved!
Other owners will become your problem if they don't like your decision to use bear spray/mace, especially if that mace affects them, which it likely will once they retrieve their dog (that stuff spreads easily). Not only could they call the cops, but they could try to escalate things (bring a gun or knife) which leads to a whole can of worms that no one wants.

If someone wants to carry mace or pepper spray for personal protection, that's their right and decision, but I would use that stuff as a last resort, not a preemptive measure.

If you're not worried about the legal or safety consequences of using that kind of measure, that's fine for you....I just wouldn't go around preaching that stuff to others like its a perfectly acceptable method, because its not.

Also, I wouldn't pretend to think that mace/pepper spray or bear spray is the end-all-be-all...I've seen full grown bears as well as smaller animals like pitbulls push through that stuff before...it all depends on the situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Yep most of the time that works! Sometimes it's not enough! And you need back up! "Rocky" was pretty persuasive, when he came to my aid uncommanded, from behind me while I was protecting him, I slipped on the ice! "Hmm daddy's down...guess it's time to step up!"
The last charging dog...flat disappeared???
I'm glad that situation worked out for you, but not all situations go that way...especially if you are dealing with a particularly bigger and more dominant dog. And just because Rocky has never met his match (in terms of confidence and dominance) doesn't mean one doesn't exist...every owner likes to think that his dog his bravest most stout SOB on the block....even I am guilty of that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
My dogs are trained to "stand" behind me and let daddy deal! My concern was with human aggression but "Rocky" understood "stay behind daddy" unless a situation dictates otherwise!
Again, if another dog is particularly aggressive and stubborn and pushes past you, what is your dog supposed to do then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
And what if there is no "other owner??
If the dogs have started fighting, and its obvious neither one is inclined to run away, I would first call for help. If there is no help, try distracting or scaring off the other dog. If none of that is working, then and only then would I start to consider using force to dissuade the other dog from continuing his actions.

I've been caught in the middle of dog fights before (none of them were the fault of my dog, but other dogs which initiated the confrontation). In the first one, I tried pulling my dog away, but all that did was encourage the other dog to attack more. In another one, I tried separating the dogs one at a time. I separated mine by pulling him back...the other dog continued his attacks....I separated the other by pulling him back...my dog continued to fight.


In summary, it's very difficult to break up a dog fight by yourself...help from other people is usually the best solution.
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