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Thread: 4month old aggression? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-22-2014 07:04 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri08 View Post
ever since this happened I'v been working on the drop it method over and over again she got it already with me .. she sits when I tell her to . she shakes my hand . she lays . leaves it . drops it . when I say let's go she fallows when I say stay sometimes she'll stay but she'll fallow me everywhere most the time lol gotta work on that .. when I ask her to go in her crate it's not the end of the world ....
but when my husband try's to do any of this it's like she can't hear him !! she just looks at him with no respect !!
I really want her to listen to everyone in the house the same way she does to me ! any ideas ??


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She may not be understanding him. IMHO, dogs often interpret our body language far more than whatever word or command we are saying. I would suggest going through the same training steps with your husband that you went through to teach those behaviors. It should go relatively quickly.

David Winners
01-22-2014 06:21 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus Laeus View Post
Agreed, I didn't mean it to apply to every situation and certainly not to adult dogs that may have established notions. I didn't have to "not take no for an answer" more than once. Maybe my situation is not the norm, but I quickly made it understood that, even if I took something, I would give it back. Just wanted to have the same end result you were referring to, being able to drop it. I don't bother him anymore at all during feeding in his crate, but I have confidence that I wouldn't have as much of an issue as I did the first time. Maybe I am wrong in assuming this.
If everything works out you did the right thing for the dog!

David Winners
01-22-2014 04:36 PM
bri08 ever since this happened I'v been working on the drop it method over and over again she got it already with me .. she sits when I tell her to . she shakes my hand . she lays . leaves it . drops it . when I say let's go she fallows when I say stay sometimes she'll stay but she'll fallow me everywhere most the time lol gotta work on that .. when I ask her to go in her crate it's not the end of the world ....
but when my husband try's to do any of this it's like she can't hear him !! she just looks at him with no respect !!
I really want her to listen to everyone in the house the same way she does to me ! any ideas ??


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
01-22-2014 10:52 AM
JessePinkman I had this same situation occur the very first time I gave Jesse a knucklebone, when he was 3.5 months old. He had never shown any aggressive signs, then became a rabid dog when I tried to take away the bone.

I just went in quickly and avoided his nips and put him timeout immediately. After timeout I gave the knucklebone and began taking it away from him and giving back continually. After this he went in his crate with it and he again had an aggressive episode. Therefore timeout and 10 more minutes of giving and taking afterwards. After this he has never growled again.

I would just make sure that you do this with high value items, otherwise every time he gets a high value item he may deem it acceptable to growl.
01-21-2014 03:50 PM
Corvus Laeus
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
Not all dogs will react the same in this situation. Possessiveness is a complex situation involving a primal urge to eat, confidence, fear, prey drive... it's not some basic do A and B will happen situation.

Even very infrequent success of a minimal degree can be very reinforcing to the behavior. If you wade in and "don't take no for an answer" 5 times in a row successfully, but then flinch backward on the 6th repetition, the dog could see that as a chance for success and up the ante next time. The aggressive behavior would increase in this case.

IMHO, it's way more fun for me and the dog to classically condition the dog turning to you and dropping whatever is in its mouth on the leave it command. When this is achieved, it doesn't matter what the dog is thinking, it will perform the ritual by rote upon command. This training also avoids the risk of creating a trust issue with the dog, which is were possession stems from. It actually builds trust. It is NILIF. You give to get.


With that being said, safety is the most important thing, and if I have to remove something from an untrained dogs mouth, I'm going to do it. I will calmly approach the dog without saying anything, take the dog by the collar while not reaching for the item, and lift the dog up by the collar until it drops the item. This doesn't mean I will do this with a hotdog. That doesn't constitute safety. If I mess up and the dog gets a hold of some tasty food, I write it off to handler error and let them have it.
Agreed, I didn't mean it to apply to every situation and certainly not to adult dogs that may have established notions. I didn't have to "not take no for an answer" more than once. Maybe my situation is not the norm, but I quickly made it understood that, even if I took something, I would give it back. Just wanted to have the same end result you were referring to, being able to drop it. I don't bother him anymore at all during feeding in his crate, but I have confidence that I wouldn't have as much of an issue as I did the first time. Maybe I am wrong in assuming this.
01-21-2014 03:38 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus Laeus View Post
As many have said, sounds like those bones were HIGH VALUE. I got a similar reaction from my 12 week old Tiberius when I gave him his first bit of RAW (a cut of marrow bone) he went wild and took that sucker into his crate. Since it isn't ALWAYS me feeding him though, I wanted to make sure anyone would be able to take away his food no matter what for any reason. First time I reached in there, he would shake his head away from me and he bit me once. BIT me. First and only time he has done it.

But, like others have said, you can't be unsure of yourself getting the food from them. They need to know YOU are the boss of the food. I told him to drop it and gave it back to him when he would settle down. Now, a couple of weeks later, I have him sitting and staying even for his MOST valued meals. It's just repetition and being sure of yourself. If you ask them to drop it and they don't, don't take no for an answer.
Not all dogs will react the same in this situation. Possessiveness is a complex situation involving a primal urge to eat, confidence, fear, prey drive... it's not some basic do A and B will happen situation.

Even very infrequent success of a minimal degree can be very reinforcing to the behavior. If you wade in and "don't take no for an answer" 5 times in a row successfully, but then flinch backward on the 6th repetition, the dog could see that as a chance for success and up the ante next time. The aggressive behavior would increase in this case.

IMHO, it's way more fun for me and the dog to classically condition the dog turning to you and dropping whatever is in its mouth on the leave it command. When this is achieved, it doesn't matter what the dog is thinking, it will perform the ritual by rote upon command. This training also avoids the risk of creating a trust issue with the dog, which is were possession stems from. It actually builds trust. It is NILIF. You give to get.


With that being said, safety is the most important thing, and if I have to remove something from an untrained dogs mouth, I'm going to do it. I will calmly approach the dog without saying anything, take the dog by the collar while not reaching for the item, and lift the dog up by the collar until it drops the item. This doesn't mean I will do this with a hotdog. That doesn't constitute safety. If I mess up and the dog gets a hold of some tasty food, I write it off to handler error and let them have it.
01-21-2014 02:02 PM
Blanketback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaythethird View Post
If we are retrieving or tugging, Oliver needs to give it to me in my hand. I don't throw dropped balls or frisbees.
Same here. And again, it's sooooo easy - why not? They want to play, so they'll do what it take to keep the game going. Yeah, sometimes my pup will drop his wubba at my feet and then cry like a baby when I don't pick it up. And then yap like crazy before whacking it into my chest, lol.
01-21-2014 01:55 PM
Corvus Laeus As many have said, sounds like those bones were HIGH VALUE. I got a similar reaction from my 12 week old Tiberius when I gave him his first bit of RAW (a cut of marrow bone) he went wild and took that sucker into his crate. Since it isn't ALWAYS me feeding him though, I wanted to make sure anyone would be able to take away his food no matter what for any reason. First time I reached in there, he would shake his head away from me and he bit me once. BIT me. First and only time he has done it.

But, like others have said, you can't be unsure of yourself getting the food from them. They need to know YOU are the boss of the food. I told him to drop it and gave it back to him when he would settle down. Now, a couple of weeks later, I have him sitting and staying even for his MOST valued meals. It's just repetition and being sure of yourself. If you ask them to drop it and they don't, don't take no for an answer.
01-21-2014 01:52 PM
selzer I think that your husband did go about it all wrong. The puppy scored these awesome, tasty things, and then dragged them to her special place. No, it's not ok, but it would have been much better to do what you did, and used the peanut butter kong to remove the puppy from the bones, than trying to go in there while she was in there, and take possession.

David provided links for what to do in the aftermath. Your pup is a baby, and it's a great time to rearrange things to get this in hand. Teaching her to LEAVE IT and DROP IT, are all excellent stuff to do in the course of training. Trading up is also good. Hey if you let me have that nasty sock, I will give you this Buddy treat. Hey if you give me that nasty bit of Yuck! I will give you this yummy piece of cheese. These are trading games, and eventually you will be able to just say GIVE, and the dog will, sometimes he gets something, sometimes not.
01-21-2014 01:51 PM
Jaythethird I think drop, leave and give are all equally important. If we are retrieving or tugging, Oliver needs to give it to me in my hand. I don't throw dropped balls or frisbees. I did a lot of sticking my hands and feet in his mouth while eating and getting treat when younger to help teach he needs to wait until they are removed to continue.
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