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Thread: A humbling experience - something for folks to consider when giving training advice Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-08-2014 09:16 PM
David Winners I'm glad you are working things out. As Carmen suggested earlier, you can use that willingness to work to your advantage by working around distractions. Regular exposure may decrease his reaction during non working times as well.

Really glad to hear things are coming along Nancy! You guys are going to be such a great team! Thanks for sharing your progress.

David Winners
02-08-2014 08:30 PM
jocoyn Interesting update. Today we had a full day mock search. Very long tiring day. Beau got 3 areas. In the first area, lo and behold......2 chained dogs and one loose very friendly chihuahua we could not deflect. We could not even catch it to leash it up. This dog was UNDER Beau when I was harnessing him and followed us for about 1 mile of our 2 mile search (GPS distance for me, much more for Beau).

Darned.....he just ignored the little bugger for the most part. There was one point when it kept getting in his way and he charged it but no damage and it backed off "a little" but not much. ...Also ignored the chained dogs. He was in prime work mode for several decent sized search areas. We had some fenced areas to traverse and he figured we were looking for the holes in the fences between a number of pastures and he found them for us (each time going to the other side and looking at us and waiting. .......It was a really good day all in all.

Really the only thing I have been doing is more and more obedience drills (at least once a day plus with team dogs whenever possible)...and putting a vest on him for searchwork. When I first started training him, the master trainer said that I needed to do obedience with him before he worked every time......I guess he needs that kind of structure to focus, but he ranges out very well to cover his areas so it is not stifling him.

Still planning on getting together with the trainer but his wife just had a baby and they already have toddler twins so I am sure it is all hands on deck at their house.....
02-06-2014 02:28 PM
jocoyn Well, they don't have two loose dogs out at the same time. The dogs are always separated. But I have not seen any evidence one way or the other.
02-06-2014 02:17 PM
Muskeg Are the LE dogs posturing or snarky?
02-06-2014 10:17 AM
jocoyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
I've worked 2 different detection dogs, plus my personal field dog, that would posture and get snarky with other dogs when not working. All that went away when they were searching.
I think you are probably right and may challenge it (the rest of the world seems to disappear when he is working) some more with team training but not around the LE dogs. Just not the kind of encounter I want to risk at a training where we are invited to participate.
02-06-2014 08:56 AM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
To me there is still an obedience factor......I think an intact male is going to do some posturing when another intact male runs up to him and gets right in his space.......But I think we should have been able to have stopped it on the spot. I got good advice when the other handler said "back out" .... I don't think either dog wanted a fight and the rest of their "pack" (us) told them we were not going to back them up.
I think many fights would not begin or disintigrate if handlers would back out. Most of the time the handler will start yelling and that just ramps up the excitement level and sets the dogs off or encourages rather than discourage the aggression.
For Beau's age, I think he controlled himself quite well.
02-06-2014 07:37 AM
jocoyn To me there is still an obedience factor......I think an intact male is going to do some posturing when another intact male runs up to him and gets right in his space.......But I think we should have been able to have stopped it on the spot. I got good advice when the other handler said "back out" .... I don't think either dog wanted a fight and the rest of their "pack" (us) told them we were not going to back them up.
02-06-2014 07:31 AM
David Winners I've worked 2 different detection dogs, plus my personal field dog, that would posture and get snarky with other dogs when not working. All that went away when they were searching.

Not to say that Beau will remain this way. Just saying that this was normal for 3 dogs I have worked.

Glad the outs are getting better!

David Winners
02-06-2014 07:07 AM
jocoyn Update

The out is working much better......The more the game goes on the harder it still is but he will release it.

Have not been back with the trainer just because his wife had a baby - Hope this week or the next we will. Had a little scuffle at training yesterday, which points to the need for more control on not only my part but a teammate's and we are going to work on this bigtime as these "boys" have to be able to work adjacent sectors and ignore each other.

I was breaking Beau offlead and the other intact male (He is 4, Beau is 2.5) got loose and ran up to Beau. There was some posturing and Beau was trying to be pushy...tail up pushing into other dog then other dog climbed up on Beau and Beau submitted standing there with his ears back and hackles up, but when the other dog got off, Beau started being pushy again. I am not sure where it would have gone from there. I *think* probably Beau would have been put in his place and submitted. FWIW not a sound was made nor was there any snapping. Both dogs were deaf to our commands, though. Not good.

We both backed OUT of the picture and called our dogs and it broke up but I wish I had a video of it.....We can work them obedience offlead right next to each other and later in the day the other dog was dropping his toy and doing the "come take it" game...both dogs loose lead....I checked Beau a couple of times for wanting to head towards him. There does not seem to be any tension between the two of them in these situations; I know it was not that long ago that both of us went to a search scene jammed into a gator with us and two other people.

Definitely something to work on.....offlead encounters happen. Sometimes when you don't see it in time to stop before the meeting. FWIW not wanting Beau to be deaf and run up to a police dog at training I worked him on a long line and a harness. Worked out pretty well but there was a bunch of deadfall and briars. Was pretty ok as he was not pulling hard into it, but then I had to drop the line...because there was so much deadfall I would have wound up flat on my face......He was committed at that point to the odor though.
01-27-2014 03:40 PM
jocoyn I thought this thread may give you more insight. In my case, Beau has while wanting to keep the tug, given me some growls while I have popped him hard with the prong (usually after the first pop did not work). This is not a behavior I had seen during routine training (such as correcting during obedience) I do not think he is a true "handler agressive dog" but what they refer to is probably to "soft" for the correction I was giving and put on the defense. Fortunately, he has neither bitten me nor, more importantly, won by biting me.

Things are going much better with this approach and I have also quit playing ball with two balls but reach into his mouth to remove the ball for the next throw. I think he is understanding the game better. I think I am as well. It is actually helping our relationship - after I take the tug for the last time I stoke his cheek and we gaze into each others eyes.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...ggression.html
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