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Thread: Growled at my mom while she was hugging her. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-22-2014 01:18 PM
Blanketback Thanks for the update It sounds like things are going well. I remember you mentioned medicating, that's why I brought it up. And don't worry, I think many of us "ruined" our first dogs. At least in hindsight we did, because we were just doing what we thought was right at the time - which might not be how we're raising our current dogs. But we loved them and we did our best. That's what it sounds like with you and Zelda too.
01-22-2014 12:21 AM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
I have not been giving her reconcile, as my vet and i decided otherwise as just for now.. And i keep going back and forth. Because I have been told i should because it will help her anxiety in general as well as SA, but i am worried for adverse affects including health (which i would do blood work) and everyone has their opinion on that.
Well for another opinion on that issue...if it is a behavioral issue drugs would just mask it, That could be worst in the long run, so I'm with your vet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
I also want to say i really am thankful for all the support and advice. I'm a complete novice when it comes to dogs/GSD's/raising up dogs.. and i happen to have this advance dog..
Thank you from the newbies to the GSD's!

I have raised dogs BullMastiff/Pitts Mixes, Boxer"mixes and Boxers. And I stumbled unto Rocky(GSD) when he was 7 months old and it was a whole nother level of dog! I didn't reach out and I got to discover:

Male Dominate Aggression...Two Dominate Male dogs + 7 month old puppy = problems in 18 24 months if you get it wrong...I did!
3 dogs are a pack,
you can't pry a GSD's mouth open with your fingers
they use long needles at the emergency clinic to stitch your fingers
The proper way to breakup a dog fight
Sit /stay/ down/ good on leash/Don't leave the yard/Don't bolt out the door...doesn't make you a pack leader
Which dog goes out the door first...matters...note it was always Gunther!
Nobody beats up my dogs... not even my dogs!
Not every dog likes company
How to use a muzzel
The phrase "I'd rather you didn't pet my dog" (That was hard for a Boxer guy)!
The leerburgh site!
So six years with a GSD now and he is a happy well adjusted boy and safe around people and other dogs but I had to learn the hard hard way. (No dog parks)(still not thrilled with company)
So to me yes,yes they are a very advanced dog!





Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
I do find it quite interesting how people are all different in their beliefs on what is acceptable for their dogs to do. Some people think growling is not okay, others only in certain circumstances, others its communication- and its not just on here, but at work as well. My manager says she wishes her dogs wouldn't be on the bed with her because they take up all the space, i said why dont you just tell them to move over, and she said its because they would growl at her. And she acted like it was completely normal. Where as my dog wouldn't be allowed on the bed if she growled at me, while i was moving her over.. she would loose the privilege.
Well some breeds are vocal rotties grumble, growl about everything, Gunther our Bull Mas/Mix was a grumble butt sleeper didn't like to be bumped.
I have to say thou that Rocky my GSD never growls...unless he means business! Our cats hear it if they wander by his bowel when they eat, he'll low growl, I'll shout at the cats then say Rocky and he goes back to eating. He's cat proof ,they jump over him sleep with him and live together 24/7 but the food bowel is his limit with them, I can pick his bowel up at will no issues and he has never growl at me or the better half.

So yeah I have to say that a growl from these guys means business but they are saying...I have an issue. It's your job to figure out what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
I am concerned that my current living situation, my financial situation and my lack of experience with advance dogs is holding her back and also, for lack of better words, "ruining her." Which is the last thing i want to do obviously since she is very dear to my heart.
Well you just have to relax keep everybody safe and think things through you can't do anything in a panic. I had to learn stuff the hard way but it looks like you don't have to!
01-21-2014 11:17 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdsar View Post
I think this with every dog. It's normal. The number of mistakes I made with my first GSD astound me. I did not make the same mistakes with my next dog, I made all new ones.




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As long as nobody gets hurt your doing fine! That's job one and your doing it!
01-21-2014 10:56 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdsar View Post
I think this with every dog. It's normal. The number of mistakes I made with my first GSD astound me. I did not make the same mistakes with my next dog, I made all new ones.




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Well...yeah!
01-21-2014 10:43 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
I see everything as an attempt to be upgraded in the pack. Zelda growled at your mum not because she was hugging her, but because Zelda thought that mum is going to push her down into her crate (the level lower than your bed). The tendency to become dominant can be observed in different ways our dogs exibit it. Dogs pay a very special attention to the places they sleep in, if Zelda minds you a leader of the pack, then she tried to occupy your space in your absence. Your bed in wider, softer, higher and altogether more comfortable than her crate, nobody would fool her - the leader occupies the best! If you moved to sleep in a different room, the story would repeat in that room and she would guard that which belongs to you in your absence. Zelda doesn't know that your mother is your mother, for Zelda is is just another member of the pack. But, she should have a reason to behave like that. It is often happens in families that strong domineering daughters have soft and submissive mothers. your dog might observed this and, following her natural instincts just tries to copy you, but in her doggy way. As long as you have love, respect and harmony in your family, you should worry about nothing. It was just a little sparkle of something natural in your dog. But, if it were shouts, cries, high pitched voices, arguments on the daily basis - Zelda would bite.
What research do you base these opinions on?

David Winners
01-21-2014 09:18 PM
David Taggart I see everything as an attempt to be upgraded in the pack. Zelda growled at your mum not because she was hugging her, but because Zelda thought that mum is going to push her down into her crate (the level lower than your bed). The tendency to become dominant can be observed in different ways our dogs exibit it. Dogs pay a very special attention to the places they sleep in, if Zelda minds you a leader of the pack, then she tried to occupy your space in your absence. Your bed in wider, softer, higher and altogether more comfortable than her crate, nobody would fool her - the leader occupies the best! If you moved to sleep in a different room, the story would repeat in that room and she would guard that which belongs to you in your absence. Zelda doesn't know that your mother is your mother, for Zelda is is just another member of the pack. But, she should have a reason to behave like that. It is often happens in families that strong domineering daughters have soft and submissive mothers. your dog might observed this and, following her natural instincts just tries to copy you, but in her doggy way. As long as you have love, respect and harmony in your family, you should worry about nothing. It was just a little sparkle of something natural in your dog. But, if it were shouts, cries, high pitched voices, arguments on the daily basis - Zelda would bite.
01-21-2014 08:33 PM
gsdsar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT;

I am concerned that my current living situation, my financial situation and my lack of experience with advance dogs is holding her back and also, for lack of better words, "ruining her." Which is the last thing i want to do obviously since she is very dear to my heart.
I think this with every dog. It's normal. The number of mistakes I made with my first GSD astound me. I did not make the same mistakes with my next dog, I made all new ones.




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01-21-2014 07:41 PM
VTGirlT Zelda has not done anything abnormal since. My mom is not hugging her at this point. I am hugging her while treating her for short periods. I do have my family scratch her since she enjoys this a lot!

I am am currently teaching her to hand target, which should be helpful. I do obedience every day with her. And do as much exercise as i can and as her hips can let her. (i have her on pain herbals now for her hips that my vet gave me)

I have not been giving her reconcile, as my vet and i decided otherwise as just for now.. And i keep going back and forth. Because I have been told i should because it will help her anxiety in general as well as SA, but i am worried for adverse affects including health (which i would do blood work) and everyone has their opinion on that.

I also want to say i really am thankful for all the support and advice. I'm a complete novice when it comes to dogs/GSD's/raising up dogs.. and i happen to have this advance dog..
I do find it quite interesting how people are all different in their beliefs on what is acceptable for their dogs to do. Some people think growling is not okay, others only in certain circumstances, others its communication- and its not just on here, but at work as well. My manager says she wishes her dogs wouldn't be on the bed with her because they take up all the space, i said why dont you just tell them to move over, and she said its because they would growl at her. And she acted like it was completely normal. Where as my dog wouldn't be allowed on the bed if she growled at me, while i was moving her over.. she would loose the privilege.

I am concerned that my current living situation, my financial situation and my lack of experience with advance dogs is holding her back and also, for lack of better words, "ruining her." Which is the last thing i want to do obviously since she is very dear to my heart.
01-21-2014 12:01 PM
Blanketback OP, is Zelda taking Reconcile?

"It is important to understand that whenever an anti-anxiety medication is used, the phenomenon of disinhibition is possible. What this means is that an animal’s inhibitions about aggressive behavior may be reduced when his or her anxiety over the consequences of such behavior is removed. An animal that was not previously aggressive could potentially become aggressive."
01 Fluoxetine (Reconcile, Prozac) - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

I know you've been concerned about her behavior for a while now. Growling at your mom (lets's say it really was a growl, just to be safe) can't be ignored. Please give us an update on how things are going, because we all want to help, and are concerned.
01-21-2014 12:49 AM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
If the dog is uncomfortable in the situation, that it is that much more important that the reason the dog did what he did is dealt with. A dog who is uncomfortable /not confident/ fearful/ anxious -- a whole lot MORE likely to bite.

Either way, it needs to be dealt with. And, NILIF, can be helpful to an uncomfortable dog too. I mean, lets relate dogs to people just because it's fun. A person who doesn't know, is uncertain what they are supposed to do, is uncomfortable. I person with clear goals and an agenda to meet them, is more comfortable.

So making the leadership clear, should make an uncomfortable dog more comfortable.

Upping the training, will increase the bond and build confidence -- if it is good training. Building confidence will make a less-comfortable dog more comfortable.

Increasing the management -- Mom and no one other than the OP is hugging the dog at this point, will decrease the likelihood of the dog doing something very unfortunate. It will make the dog more comfortable in the short run. Once the dog seems more confident over all, maybe other family members will be able to hug the dog.

Sometimes the reasons are different, but many of the same types of dealing with the problem will actually work. And this is why in one post, I said, if you are doing this -- do that, and vice-versa. If you are using +R, go with training that has some corrections. If you are using corrections, go with training that is mostly +R. If you have a dog that is full of himself, maybe a different approach to training is warranted. If you have a dog that is uncomfortable, AKA scared, then even minor corrections may reduce this dog's ability to move forward, gain trust, gain confidence.
I agree with all this. The first thing I do with most behavioral issues is establish leadership and exercise programs, sometimes before I ever see the dog. Training doesn't start until the leadership programs have been in place for a week or 2.

I wasn't debating the value of NILIF, exercise or dog appropriate training.

David Winners
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