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Thread: Trouble in parallel searching Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-27-2014 07:00 AM
wyoung2153 I will definitely do that. Thank you so much!

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01-25-2014 09:44 PM
LouCastle I've been working with dogs that search for a living for about 35 years. For most of that time I've been using Ecollars with them. First it was with LE K−9's and then I started with SAR dogs. With either of them, the right "touch" is necessary, especially with the Ecollar. If you use too much pressure from the tool, in efforts to get compliance with commands, you become a distraction and can impact the dog's ability to search.

My methods were developed specifically to work with these dogs and NOT to cause this interference. With them, searching is paramount.

When I started working with SAR dogs there was a strong feeling among many trainers and handlers that the tool would ruin the work. This was based on old methods that only punished the dogs when they did the wrong thing. But that's not the only way that the tool can be used and nowadays, people are much more open to the use. Of course there will always be some who have seen poor use and are not convinced.

Wyoung I suggest that you take a look at my site, it's free and that will give you some idea of what I do and how I do it. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Nancy I haven't been on the East Coast for some time. Love to go again.
01-20-2014 01:32 PM
wyoung2153 I have yet to have an in depth talk with him about the actual problem so that is bad on my part. I plan on talking to him next week in depth about my goals with Titan and myself, I will definitely let you guys know what he suggests and how it goes when we try whatever fixaction we do.
01-20-2014 01:22 PM
jocoyn The problems you are having a very common, so it will be interesting to see what he has to do to help you with them and maybe we can all learn something good to share with the folks who work with us. That is how I bring up different ideas........
01-20-2014 01:18 PM
wyoung2153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Don't give a command you cannot enforce until it is consistent under distraction. ...I kept Beau out of the water this weekend with a pfooi. I had a pretty long post in the finding a trainer section about some of the issues. We are a way to go without using an ecollar yet, but it is the perfect tool FOR the recall.

How about your team lead? Do they have anything to offer.
Oh yes, he is quite incredible with his dogs. He has 3 currently, the senior dog, 11 yrs, is certified but retired, his 5 y/o is certified in Area and HRD and is amazing, his puppy is one year and extremely impressive, already very advanced, IMO. He has had 2 other dogs I know of that have been certified as well but are no longer with us.. one I met and worked with and she was awesome. He has trained for some years now with a multiple of SAR teams and has a good connection with Klaas Kids' lead, Brad Dennis who I believe he trained with as well.

He is a very very credible trainer and I trust his judgment with things. I may disagree on somethings but all in all I would trust him when it comes to SAR training. I tend to like outside opinions though, just want to talk to as many people as possible about an issue I am having.
01-20-2014 01:11 PM
jocoyn Don't give a command you cannot enforce until it is consistent under distraction. ...I kept Beau out of the water this weekend with a pfooi. I had a pretty long post in the finding a trainer section about some of the issues. We are a way to go without using an ecollar yet, but it is the perfect tool FOR the recall.

How about your team lead? Do they have anything to offer.
01-20-2014 12:42 PM
wyoung2153 Sorry. been MIA for a minute, but I have been reading the posts just no time to respond until now. Thank you guys for taking the time to read and give opinions, helps a lot.

I told my team this weekend I wanted SARTECH II and III by summer, my lead seemed pleasantly surprised and set up a certifying type training search for Titan and me and we did very well.. still a little work needed, honestly more on my part than Titan's.. but work none the less.

Back to the parallel searching.. I have not brought up the e-collar to My team lead, and i am not sure how he feels about them so that might be interesting. I think too, the e-collar may work with other things I want to work with him, dropping the ball (will drop any dang thing but the stupid Tennis ball... *sigh* ), leaving things alone after a 3 count while training, not playing in the creek everytime he comes near it while on a search, etc. I just have to get my team on board. My team lead seems much more on the verbal discipline vs anything else. Any suggestions if the e-collar isn't an option for me?
01-19-2014 11:31 PM
jocoyn Absolutely, it is easy to mess up a search dog with the ecollar, which is why you want "the right trainer". Looking forward to your posts! A dutch shepherd...bet you have a live-wire. I am not that brave yet.
01-19-2014 11:01 PM
DutchKarin I want to first say that I never will claim to be an expert. I want to start posting in this section more as I am sinking more into the SAR training. BUT for this thread, I have an 8 month old Dutch Shep and am starting on air scenting and really at the begining of SAR training. Ay 6 months I really started having some issue (recall and totally into other dogs) with my head strong pup. I worked with a trainer who specializes in ecollar work and in the shortest amount of time I thought possible and with really minimal stimulation on the collar we have these issues under control. I will be working with this trainer to start fading the collar to head back to a flat collar as soon as I can. With a good trainer, a lot can be done.

Can't say enough about finding a good trainer.
01-16-2014 09:46 AM
jocoyn If you decide to work with one, I would either find someone on the team or someone local to work with. I have worked/spoke directly with Lou Castle as well as I like the low stim approach vs the higher stim shock/correction and felt the dog was thinking through the whole experience. But I have no real experience with the other. A teammate has the Leerburg videos which I am going to watch but I am not inclined. Both Leerburg and Lou Castle are diametrically opposed to one another. From all I do know is that a Dogtra or Einstein collar would be the best choice for low stim as the tritronics stops are discontinuous and may be too far apart to fine tune the stim. Cheap ecollars are trash.

It is very important to do it properly as the dog can either get scared or redirect thinking the other dog hurt it.

The man is the real thing and will take time with you but he has a ton of good articles on his page. I have a testimonial there in the SAR section. Home

There are several different approaches to their use. I am meeting with a police trainer this weekend who we respect and know is fair with the dogs. I do know Beau is a very hard dog and does not shut down with correction [if he did, Lou's methods are the only ones I would even consider as they will work with a soft dog]. I am not sure which approach he takes for distance control but I will go there and my goal is to work on this issue.

The other option is more work on obedience/prong/long line etc and building that reliability. It gets tricky in the woods though with a long line as it can get hung up and the dog can self-correct unintentionally.

May be nice for some of our East Coast SAR teams to talk about bringing him in for a seminar. Most of his are on the West Coast.
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