|03-10-2014 06:14 PM|
Minoli made a couple references I was going to touch on.
1) Loose the Wal-Mart chicken/find a co-op ~ Thumbs - up!
2) Kinesiology or also known as muscle testing for sensitivities. Based on energy. My Holistic vet used this to test supplements she wanted G on, but before just giving them she did the test Minoli describes.
I had read about prior, but didn't really see or feel what she regarded as needed as my arm was out to my side, holding the bottle on my dogs shoulder, she would press down on my wrist with two fingers....I was to hold but not resist...my arm moved slightly...
Well, I questioned what if it was something he didn't need...she grabbed a bottle of heart meds., I extended my arm, she pressed down and my arm was a rubber band! I couldn't resist against the slight pressure. It's quite amazing.
Can't wait till you get an appointment w/holistic vet. DO you call often to see if any cancellations that day? That's an option to get in sooner
|03-10-2014 01:08 PM|
I had a very similar case to yours Gibby, it is still present but has gotten much better. My girlfriend and I got our dog, Leo (8 weeks old) in August of 2011, and began feeding raw in February of 2012. He was fed raw until March/April of 2013, when we switched back to kibble. He developed hot spots all over his stomach, raw/flaky skin on the tips of his ears (still present), a dry nose (still present), ear infections and chewed at his paws and legs excessively. He also had black flaky patches on his cheeks. I switched to raw because I wanted to provide him with the most beneficial diet possible.
We went to our vet, who concluded that it wasn't mange. He gave us alcohol wipes and topical cream to put on his cheeks which cleared it up. Although I can't exactly recall what we were prescribed by our vet, I felt like we were getting the run around. Most vets seem to give you a solution to mask the problem, instead of actually figuring out what causes it and removing the cause from the environment/diet for a permanent solution.
We then went to a holistic vet that conducted tests by having a variety of raw meat in a small test tube, in which the vets assistant held the test tubes of raw meat to Leo's side, and the vet would see how easily the assistants arm would go down. We did 3 sessions of this (once every 3-4 weeks), and it didn't seem like we were getting anywhere. Especially when he said Leo's allergic to every meat except for fish and lamb. The holistic vet told us this is a very rare circumstance where Leo has so many allergens, that it would be best to switch back to kibble since he is so limited on his protein sources.
My girlfriend wanted to keep Leo on kibble the whole time, so I figured we could try this (also recommended by the holistic vet now) since we had nothing to lose. We have been feeding him Nature's Recipe Grain Free Salmon, Sweet Potato and Pumpkin. He has been doing well on it overall, no more hot spots on stomach, he has put on a little more weight and overall looks healthier than he did on the raw diet. Our dog trainer and friends have noticed how much better his coat looks. We just recently started adding tripe to his meals to help him gain weight. He's 71 lbs right now, and could easily put on another 8-10 lbs to be at a healthy weight.
However he is still not 100%, since he still has a very dry nose (it feels like sand paper) the tips of his ears are still raw, he had a bad ear infection a couple months ago and he rubs his nose/head on the bed after every meal. I believe part of his nose issues may be from trying to break out of his crate every day when my girlfriend and I are at work. We had to put carabiners on all 4 corners of his crate, as well as both doors to prevent him from breaking out. He chewed through the dry wall and molding when we left him out around 8 months ago, so he won't have free roam again for a little while longer.
We ordered Inflight Coat Formula per our breeders recommendation, since his coat is also very thin (it should be quite a bit thicker, especially with the cold winter we've been experiencing). Inflight Coat Formula, Finally a Coat Supplement that Works!
We've been adding this for the past 2-3 weeks now, so are waiting to see if this helps. We have also been putting coconut oil on his nose and tips of his ears 1-2 times per day, for as long as I can remember.
I hope everything clears up with your boy. I read through your whole thread, and believe I recall reading that you got some of your chicken from either Meijer or Walmart? If that's the case, then I would avoid that at all costs. I'd recommend looking into into a raw co-op, where the meat is purchased at bulk, is all natural and even cheaper than Meijer/Walmart. Meijer/Walmart injects their chicken breasts and other pieces with 'natural juices'. My dog would turn his nose to the Meijer chicken, but would eat the same cut of chicken from the co-op. The lady in my co-op delivers around 10,000 lbs. of meat a month throughout Michigan. There are many other raw co-ops out there, so one in your state should be very likely.
I wish the raw diet would've worked for Leo, as I truly believe it is the best thing to feed a dog. I look forward to hearing your progress, and hope your dog gets better. It's unfortunate that most vets aren't more familiar with this, since it's obvious in your thread that more people than you and I are having a very similar problem.
|03-10-2014 04:35 AM|
Are you still taking Panzer to the holistic vet for his allergy shots?
And if so, are his 'flair ups' in any routine timing after these shots?
If they happen to co-incide with the shots, let your vet know. The strength of the allergy shots may be too much yet.
An allergy shot is a serum made of the triggers that Panzer was sensitive to. They increase the amount of allergens in each new shot, in a hope to build up his sensitivity/immunity to the allergens.
If he is having break outs after new shots they may need to ease the level of allergens in the shots.
I would definitely let them know that his healing has slowed now.
And make sure you are staying on top of the itching/gnawing. If he is able to get to an area he will cause new oozing.
Also if you introduced anew type of food product or treats they may be causing a reaction as well.
I will keep everything crossed for your Panzer that he returns to a quicker state of healing. But remember it did take us at least three months to get rid of all the red, oozing, and then the flakes had to be brushed all off.
|03-09-2014 05:41 PM|
The dog was allergy tested - pork was on the list.
Oozing yellowy discharge is infection "leaving the body"
|03-09-2014 05:37 PM|
Ethoxyquin as a preservative was banned in human products. It is also used as a rubber stabilizer in tires.
|03-09-2014 12:05 PM|
|my boy diesel||
oozing some yellowy discharge
that is infection if it is coming from the red open areas
see when dogs scratch themselves they open their skin for bacteria to gain entrance
if your dog is oozing this could very well be e coli or even staph or strep infection of the skin
since the skin is the largest organ on the body this can be devastating
not to mention the dog is continually fighting a huge infection and can take a toll on its immune system more than it already has
as others said raw is not for everyone
if you are using a diet that the dog is allergic to it doesnt matter if you cook it or use it in kibble or feed it raw the dog is gonna be sick
|03-09-2014 10:32 AM|
experience working with a person who had gone that route of changing proteins beginning with the "usual suspects" then lamb , duck, turkey, rabbit , bush baby , ostrich, kangaroo and finally llama and alpaca .
Each and every protein he moved to was "good!" for a short time .
The symptom was treated but not the cause
He had no fix . The problem or cause was that the dog needed to break down the protein that he was getting . Break down the food he was getting . The reason why he had a temporary relief was because the dogs body was not responding to large undigested protein molecules and other indigested substances which can cross the intestinal lining and enter the bloodstream. There they will be treated like any other foreign invader , bacteria , virus, rogue cells , by an activated immune response , mild at first then being hypersensitized .
The formula from the vet , using Iams Vet
Oat Flour, Kangaroo, Canola Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Thiamine Mononitrate (souce of Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Cobalt Carbonate
may have a greater volume of indigestible fibre than kangaroo meat .
Beet pulp has no nutritional value . It does firm stools, and it feeds a healthy beneficial gut flora -- if that is in order - acting as a pre biotic for the probiotic bacteria.
Few years back it would have been peanut shells.
Oat flour like beet pulp helps create nice stools.
But so does optimized digestion , using digestive enzymes to help the process , without filler which takes place of more expensive and necessary proteins.
If you want or need to feed kangaroo maybe a better route would be to source the raw meat from an exotic or specialty butcher ?
My concern would be the canola meal . I am guessing they are using it because it, like kangaroo, is a novelty item which would not initially elicit a strong allergic response ? Little to no nutritive value.
Used as a farm feed for cattle, swine, farmed fish , chickens.
This is controversial as an ingredient . I don't even use canola oil as a cooking oil. The big problems is GMO.
I live in a community that pre-subdivisions was blazing yellow in the fall with fields of canola - rapeseed . Big signs telling you which patches were fertilized , or treated with what . Pioneer test plots gathering data on crop yields . GMO has to be identified.
The canola meal is a by product of the oil extraction - done by use of solvents.
Can you think of a better way to feed your dog?
|03-09-2014 08:30 AM|
I would like to tell you ALL how helpful you have been! It is nice to have somewhere to turn in times like these! I am sorry that all of you had to go through this but am happy that everyone is so kind to offer the solutions from their experience and more suggestions to Gibby and anyone else who is experiencing these types of issues!!
Gibby- I hope that Panzer continues to improve!
Just wanted you all to know how kind you are for sharing!!
Sent from Petguide.com Free App
|03-07-2014 11:26 AM|
My GSD is also 2 years and has bad skin reaction for over a year now. It started when we went away for 3 weeks and put him in a dog hotel. He developed dermodectic mange for which he was treated. Since then it has been a constant battle. We determined he was allergic to chicken, and switched to a turkey and duck kibble. The kibble we used was fairly high end - Acana/Orijen and the holistic Now! for large breeds. But he was still scratching and very itchy.
Towards the middle/end of November we switched to RAW [BCR which is a very good brand] and started with beef. He seemed to improve then went downhill from there - he lost about 3-4 kg and we were feeding 3%+ of his weight. He also developed diarhea and started vomitting. He was insanely itchy.
The vet told us we need to give him something he has never been exposed to and in North America that is kangaroo. Finding affordable pure raw kangaroo in Ontario Canada is impossible...So then we moved back to kibble - a veterinary diet - IAMS Kangaroo. He is still itchy, but the fur is starting to grow back on his ears and the change is OMG remarkable. He has got his drive back. And this is after less than 3 weeks! I do sport scenting with him and the folks I do it with say he is a different dog - even I can't believe how well he is working!
There is another brand in the US that makes a kangaroo based food - but that company has been subject to numerous recalls - so did not want to risk that.
Much as I hate science diets and think they are really poor quality, I will give my dog anything at this stage that will make him feel/get better.
One thing we did notice though, is that when the temperature drops to -5C and below he gets more itchy.
If your dog does not improve, RAW may not be working for him. I would honestly recommend you trying the IAMS Kangaroo - it requires a vet script to get - it's freaking expensive [about CAD 112 for a 13 kg bag], but worth it if it works for your dog.
Just as an FYI - my vet was (1) kangaroo (2) cook his meals [but the recommended recipes used beef and chicken] and (3) vegetarian.
RAW doesn't work for all dogs - during my research I found that the most common food sensitivities in dogs are:
beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy....
Some-one earlier in the post recommended you do a food sensitivity check, I would highly recommend that if you want to stick with RAW. And I would not do the common ones first - I would do something like rabbit or bison. What my vet told me is true though, the dog food industry are now also creating a wide variety of dog treats - I know I gave Thor rabbit ears, bison and wild boar treats in the past. That counts as being exposed to that food...
Just my 2 cents.
PS: the correct name for the kangaroo food is IamsŪ Veterinary Formula™ Skin & Coat Plus Response™ KO
|03-07-2014 01:14 AM|
|gibby913||Gator as an update Panzer is still having spells of red/itchy patches. It seems to be getting better but very slowly now. He did start oozing some yellowy discharge but not much. Using Nyx's experience as a guideline I'm assuming this is a sign of progress.|
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